Grit and Grace in the Heartland: Women In Agriculture

Grit, Grace, and the Courage to Start Over: Jennifer Hill’s Ranching Journey

In this powerful and candid conversation, Mary and Leah welcome rancher and agricultural communicator Jennifer Hill to share her family’s remarkable journey from western Colorado to the Sandhills of Nebraska.
Jennifer opens up about legacy, loss, reinvention, and what it truly takes to sustain a ranching operation across generations in the face of bureaucracy, environmental challenges, and shifting policy landscapes.
This episode is a deep dive into grit, grace, and the complicated realities behind the beef on your plate.
From the High Desert to the Sandhills
Jennifer and her husband were part of a fifth generation ranching family operating across 120,000 acres of high desert country near Rangely in western Colorado and eastern Utah. Their operation relied heavily on Bureau of Land Management leases, creating a complicated relationship with federal oversight.
Life on Federal Lands
Generational ranching history predating modern federal land management
Extensive permitting processes including archaeological and environmental reviews
Years long delays for basic infrastructure approvals such as rebuilding fence lines
Increasing regulatory pressure and administrative gridlock
Wildfire policy shifts and the long term consequences of fire suppression
Resource competition including unmanaged feral horses and reclassified wildlife
Jennifer describes it as death by a thousand cuts. No single decision removed ranchers from the land, but cumulative policy and bureaucratic hurdles made sustainability increasingly difficult.
By 2020, after years of mounting pressure and difficult conversations, her family made the heartbreaking decision to leave.
The Leap of Faith
Selling a generational ranch is not just a business decision. It is emotional, financial, and deeply personal.
Because of 1031 exchange rules, the family had just 45 days to identify and secure a comparable property or face devastating capital gains taxes. During a global pandemic. With children. And cattle.
After considering multiple states and even briefly exploring Uruguay, they chose Nebraska.
Starting Over in Nebraska
Moving six generations of belongings, three generations of people, and cattle 600 miles was only the beginning.
The Challenges
Cattle struggling to adapt from mineral heavy desert terrain to Sandhills grass
Significant herd culling during transition
An unusually brutal Nebraska winter during their first year
Rebuilding community relationships from scratch
Overcoming assumptions about being outside investors
Jennifer shares that it took nearly four years before their calf crop truly reflected the quality and consistency they were used to producing.
The turning point moment came when she turned on a faucet in Nebraska and watched clean water pour freely. After years of hauling and distilling water in the desert, that moment symbolized both relief and possibility.
Advocacy, Women in Agriculture, and Finding Your Voice
With reliable rural internet finally available, Jennifer expanded her work in agricultural communication and advocacy.
She speaks candidly about:
The tension within agricultural advocacy
The risk of public infighting while consumers are watching
The need for thoughtful, constructive dialogue
The importance of sharing accurate stories about modern ranching
Her perspective is grounded in lived experience. Policy swings between administrations, wildlife management decisions, and regulatory shifts directly impact families and communities.
Healthy farms and ranches mean healthy rural communities.
Lessons for Women in Agriculture
Jennifer’s advice for women entering or growing within agriculture is both practical and empowering:
Find the experts.You do not have to know everything. Build relationships. Ask questions. Listen.
She emphasizes the importance of mentorship, intergenerational wisdom, and learning from those who survived past agricultural downturns.
As markets rise and fall, resilience is built through shared knowledge.
What She Loves About Nebraska
Abundant grass and water
Being part of a strong agricultural community
Raising children where ranch life is understood and valued
Contributing meaningfully to a rural economy
While the transition was terrifying and uncertain, Jennifer and her family have put down roots and are building something new in the Sandhills.
Connect with Jennifer
Jennifer HillHi Slash Cattle CompanyActive on social media sharing ranch life and agricultural insights
Why This Conversation Matters
This episode reminds us that ranching is not a romantic postcard. It is complex, policy driven, capital intensive, emotionally taxing work rooted in legacy and responsibility.
It also reminds us that adaptation is possible.
If you care about rural communities, land stewardship, food production, or simply love a good steak, this conversation is for you.
As always, live with grit and grace.
 

From Maine to the Microphone: Mary’s Story of Homesteading, Heart, and Finding Her Voice

In this heartfelt and laughter filled episode, Leah turns the tables and puts Mary in the hot seat. What unfolds is a powerful conversation about storytelling, homesteading, Maine roots, motherhood, migraines, and the leap into podcasting later in life.
This episode is part origin story, part friendship story, and part reminder that every person has something meaningful to share.
What We Talk About
Starting the day with intentionMary and Leah reflect on why beginnings matter. From morning routines to ancestral wisdom, they explore how starting the day grounded instead of rushed can change everything.
Weather contrasts across the HeartlandNebraska sun, Minnesota winter, and the surreal reality of 80 degree February days. They discuss shifting seasons and learning to focus only on what is within your control.
The science of laughterDid you know spontaneous laughter can reduce stress levels by 36 percent? The women talk about why genuine laughter may be one of the most powerful forms of preventative health care and share simple ways to bring more of it into your daily life.
Mary’s Maine childhoodGrowing up surrounded by pine trees, gardens, venison, wild blueberries, swimming holes, and storytelling. Mary shares how her parents shaped her curiosity and resilience, and how being raised in a modest but resourceful household built the foundation for her love of homesteading.
New England directness vs. Midwest niceAn honest and thoughtful conversation about communication styles, clarity, and how cultural differences shape relationships.
Why Mary started podcastingAs an empty nester navigating menopause and chronic migraines, Mary knew she needed a meaningful project. What began as a personal challenge turned into:
A Tiny Homestead
Grit and Grace in the Heartland
Mary shares how interviewing homesteaders, farmers, and makers became both a creative outlet and a way to elevate rural voices.
Behind the scenes of podcastingMary walks through the real process of recording, editing, and publishing episodes using tools like:
Riverside
Audacity
Podbean
Listeners get a glimpse into the time, cost, and heart required to produce meaningful content.
The value of sponsorship and supportA candid discussion about the reality that quality content is not free to produce. Mary and Leah encourage listeners to thoughtfully consider sponsorship opportunities that sustain independent creators.
Homesteading ingenuityFrom repurposed treadle sewing machines to seed planners and reindeer stories, the conversation celebrates creativity and the spirit of making do with what you have.
Themes You’ll Hear
Curiosity as a lifelong gift
Making your mess your message
The power of rural storytelling
Resourcefulness over wealth
Friendship formed through shared purpose
Women supporting women in agriculture
Laughter as medicine
Memorable Moments
Mary’s mother meeting her father at a USO dance and knowing immediately he was the one
Swimming to the dock to prove she could swim
Growing up poor but never feeling poor
Being told “Why isn’t it an A plus plus?”
Selling goats across state lines because of a podcast interview
The Valentine’s Day mini cow joke
A Gentle Reminder
As Easter approaches, resist the temptation to impulse buy chicks or ducklings unless you are truly prepared for the responsibility. Homesteading is joyful, but it requires commitment.
Connect With Us
Visit Grit and Grace in the Heartland.comListen to A Tiny Homestead on Podbean
If this episode resonated with you, consider sharing it with a friend or exploring sponsorship opportunities to support independent rural storytelling.
Thank you for spending your morning with us.Go forward today with grit, grace, and maybe a little more laughter.

From Non Ag to Sandhills Prairie Girl

In this heartfelt episode, Mary and Leah welcome Nicole, creator of Sandhills Prairie Girl, joining from the breathtaking Nebraska Sandhills. What begins as lighthearted weather talk turns into a deeply meaningful conversation about marriage, ranch life, faith, creativity, and finding beauty in wide open spaces.
Nicole shares how a non agriculture girl from Cozad, Nebraska, fell in love with a rancher and stepped into a life she never imagined. From clobbering her head on a gate to fainting during her first prolapse experience, her introduction to ranch life was anything but gentle. Yet 23 years later, she cannot imagine raising her family anywhere else.
From Non Ag to Ranch Wife
Nicole opens up about:
Moving 200 miles west into the rugged Nebraska Sandhills
Marrying not only her husband, but the ranch itself
Learning the financial realities of ranching versus a weekly paycheck
Adjusting to spring calving season immediately after her February wedding
The emotional and practical challenges of rural isolation
She speaks honestly about how transformative that shift was and how commitment, communication, counseling, family support, and faith helped sustain her marriage.
Her transparency around marriage counseling and seeking help in agriculture communities is powerful. She emphasizes that asking for help is not weakness. It is wisdom.
The Art Behind the Lens
Nicole’s photography has become a daily ritual for thousands who begin their mornings with her page.
She shares:
Receiving a Fisher Price 35mm camera in third grade
Teaching herself DSLR photography beyond auto mode
Learning manual settings to capture the night sky
Chasing her dream shot of the Milky Way over a Sandhills windmill
Building her skills through online courses and practice
With almost zero light pollution, the Sandhills offer her a canvas of stars, curves, shadow, and light. She describes the hills as showing off their curves at sunrise.
Her audience spans the globe, from Italy to Australia, from former Sandhills residents to lifelong Nebraska lovers. Some follow for ranch life, others for hymns, and many for the peace her page brings.
Hymns, Healing, and Faith
One of the most beloved features of Nicole’s page is her Sunday hymn posts.
She shares the deeply personal story behind them:
Growing up in a strict Christian household
Rebelling from faith in early adulthood
Experiencing her parents’ divorce shortly after her marriage
Feeling her spiritual foundation crumble during her transition into ranch life
Finding her way back to a faith that became her own
The hymns she shares are not random selections. They are rooted in memory, music, and healing. Many were written during intense personal trials, which makes them even more meaningful.
Through photography and hymn research, Nicole has found redemption in parts of her story that once felt broken.
The Beauty of the Sandhills
The Nebraska Sandhills are often described as untouched and singular. Visitors from New York City to Wisconsin stand in awe of the vastness.
In this episode, the conversation also explores:
The migration of sandhill cranes along the Platte River
Trumpeter swans wintering in western Nebraska
The way light moves across grass covered dunes
The feeling of standing somewhere so open it makes you feel small
Nicole describes the Sandhills as magical and fragile. A place of both beauty and difficulty. Not for everyone, but life changing for those who truly see it.
What Is Ahead for Sandhills Prairie Girl
Nicole hints at a dream for the future: expanding her Sunday hymn posts into a devotional or coffee table style book featuring longer reflections and full page photography.
She continues to:
Publish annual calendars featuring her photography
Share regularly on Facebook and Instagram
Connect with readers across the world
Why This Episode Matters
This conversation is about more than ranch life.
It is about:
The courage to seek help in marriage
Faith that evolves and deepens over time
The beauty of rural America
Creative expression as healing
Stewardship of land and legacy
Nicole’s vulnerability reminds us that grit and grace are often woven together quietly, in places far from the spotlight.
Connect with Nicole
Follow Sandhills Prairie Girl on:
Facebook
Look for her annual calendars and upcoming creative projects.
If you loved this episode, share it with a friend and help us continue amplifying the voices of women in agriculture.
Find Mary and Leah at:
Facebook: Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture
Website: gritandgraceintheheartland.com
Thank you for spending time with us.
Until next time, live with grit and grace.

Finding Community in the Fields with Tracy of HarvestHer

Mary and Leah welcome Tracy from Harvest Her in Nebraska for a heartfelt conversation about community, identity, and the unique challenges facing women in agriculture.
The episode opens with a very real ranch moment as Leah shares about getting knocked down by her daughter’s 4-H market heifer. From bumps and bruises to deeper reflections, the conversation quickly turns to something many women quietly carry: the need for connection and safe community.
In This Episode
• Leah’s run-in with a Hereford heifer and the lessons that followed• Why women in agriculture often put themselves last• The origin story of Harvest Her and how it grew from a Facebook page into a nine-year retreat community• The power of gathering, from quilting circles to modern retreats• Why community is more necessary now than ever, even in a hyper-connected world• The guilt many women feel about stepping away from home to invest in themselves• Identity struggles tied to agriculture, family roles, and retirement• The realities of custom harvesting life, including traveling from Texas to Canada following the wheat harvest• How regulations and industry changes have reshaped custom harvesting over the decades• Why small, intimate gatherings can create deeper connection• The importance of modeling work-life balance for the next generation
About Harvest Her
Harvest Her began in 2016 as a Facebook page created to spotlight and support the wives of custom harvesters. It has since evolved into a broader community for women connected to farming, ranching, and agriculture across the United States and Canada.
At its heart, Harvest Her is about creating a safe place where women can talk openly about family, faith, identity, burnout, purpose, and everything in between.
The annual Harvest Her Retreat is now entering its ninth year and will be held in late February near Ashland, Nebraska. The retreat hosts approximately 20 to 24 women for three days of:
• Fellowship and meaningful conversation• Encouragement and personal growth• Meals prepared on-site• A relaxed schedule with room to rest• A special Texas barbecue night• A no-judgment, what-happens-here-stays-here environment
Industry sponsors help keep the cost accessible so finances are not a barrier to attendance.
A Deeper Theme: Community Over Isolation
Throughout the episode, Mary, Leah, and Tracy reflect on how:
• Women report feeling more disconnected despite technology• Hyper-independence has replaced relational living• Guilt often keeps women from saying yes to personal growth opportunities• Identity tied solely to work or agriculture can become fragile• Community is not a luxury but a necessity
As Tracy shares, many women hesitate before attending. Nearly all who come say it was one of the best decisions they made for themselves and their families.
Learn More
To find more information or register for the upcoming retreat:
Facebook: Harvest HerWebsite: harvesther.com
You can also connect with us at:gritandgraceintheheartland.comFacebook: Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture
If you are sitting on the fence about investing in yourself, consider this your encouragement. Community matters. You are worth the time.
Until next time, have some grit and grace.
 
 

Weather wisdom, tradition, agriculture, and the enduring relevance of The Old Farmer’s Almanac

In this episode, Mary and Leah sit down with Carol Connare, Editor-in-Chief of The Old Farmer’s Almanac, for a wide-ranging and thoughtful conversation about weather patterns, gardening, agriculture, livestock management by the signs, print publishing in a digital world, and why timeless wisdom still matters.
From bitter cold in Minnesota to snowstorms in New Hampshire, the discussion weaves personal experience with centuries-old observation, reminding us why working with nature rather than against it still matters.
🧭 Key Topics and Highlights
00:00–01:30 | Introductions and Weather Check
Meet Carol Connare, Editor-in-Chief of The Old Farmer’s Almanac
Current weather in New Hampshire compared to Minnesota
Cold snaps, wind chills, and winter realities for farmers and ranchers
01:30–03:30 | Weather Weirdness and Gardening Challenges
Why it sometimes snows when it seems too cold for snow
Jet stream changes, moisture patterns, and rapid precipitation
How erratic weather has impacted gardens over recent years
03:30–05:00 | Clearing Up the Almanac Confusion
The difference between The Old Farmer’s Almanac and The Farmer’s Almanac
Confirmation that The Old Farmer’s Almanac is alive, well, and thriving
Business model differences and why confusion persists
05:00–06:30 | Writing for the Almanac
Anyone can submit article ideas and written pieces
Writer guidelines, long lead times, and working far ahead
Why good ideas still matter even if they are for future editions
06:30–08:00 | Carol’s Path to the Almanac
From Yankee Magazine to academia to a return to publishing
Gardening, teaching, and editorial work shaping her perspective
Landing her dream job later in her career
08:00–11:30 | Readership, Demographics, and Print’s Comeback
Over 2.5 million copies published annually, including a Canadian edition
Average reader age, strong loyalty, and multigenerational readership
Reprints triggered by confusion around the closure of The Farmer’s Almanac
Why print is resurging in a screen-saturated culture
11:30–14:30 | Using the Almanac and Reader Engagement
The Almanac as an ongoing conversation with readers
Lifelong subscribers and personal reader interactions
Helping people better understand how to use the Almanac
14:30–17:30 | Livestock, Farming, and Working by the Signs
Leah explains using lunar signs for weaning calves
Reduced stress, calmer cattle, and improved outcomes
Emergency room data, full moons, and gravitational forces
Moon phases, soil movement, tides, and plant growth
17:30–19:30 | Folklore, Science, and Flow
Astronomy and astrology as shared sciences historically
Folklore as observation and experience rather than superstition
Stepping into natural rhythms instead of trying to control outcomes
19:30–22:30 | Women, History, and the “Landladies” Feature
Women-founded and women-run gardens highlighted in the 2026 issue
How the Landladies feature came together
Reflections on the evolving role of women in agriculture and culture
22:30–25:30 | Tradition, Faith, and Respect for Creation
Oral history, handwritten diaries, and generational knowledge
Faith, stewardship, and intentional design in nature
Why working against natural systems often creates consequences
25:30–27:30 | Why the Almanac Still Matters
The Almanac costs less than a specialty coffee
Elderberry syrup, first-aid plants, and natural remedies
Younger audiences rediscovering traditional knowledge
27:30–29:30 | Almanac Tools and Online Resources
Website: almanac.com
Free tools including frost dates, soil calculators, mulch calculators, and maps
Commitment to 100 percent human-created content
Social media presence on Facebook, Instagram, and Pinterest
29:30–30:00 | Closing Thoughts
Gratitude for shared wisdom and conversation
Encouragement to stay safe during extreme weather
Final reminder to lead with grit and grace
The Old Farmer’s Almanac: https://www.almanac.com
Shop the Almanac: https://www.almanac.com/shop
Free Tools: https://www.almanac.com/tools
Available in print, large print, Kindle, and barn-friendly editions

The Birth of Clear Creek Ranch Mom: Crisis, Community, and Finding Your Voice

In this powerful and deeply personal episode, Leah shares the full origin story of Clear Creek Ranch Mom, a journey born not from strategy or branding, but from crisis, heartbreak, resilience, and an unshakable desire to help.
What began as a quiet, dormant Facebook page in 2018 was forever changed by the historic March 2019 bomb cyclone and flooding in Nebraska. Leah walks listeners through that terrifying day as Clear Creek transformed from a familiar, peaceful waterway into a raging river, cutting off roads, sweeping away livestock, destroying infrastructure, and altering lives across rural Nebraska.
Through raw storytelling, Leah reflects on fear, loss, impossible decisions, and the emotional toll placed on ranching families. She also shares how humor, honesty, and community became lifelines in the aftermath, and how Clear Creek Ranch Mom evolved into a trusted voice for agriculture, advocacy, and connection far beyond Nebraska.
This episode is a testament to the power of showing up, telling the truth, and becoming a helper when it matters most.
⏱️ Episode Highlights
00:00–03:30 – Life updates, winter woes, and a very sneaky dog named Maggie
03:34–06:30 – The quiet beginnings of Clear Creek Ranch Mom and Leah’s love of writing
06:30–10:15 – Nebraska winters, frozen ground, and the lead-up to the bomb cyclone
10:15–16:30 – The flood unfolds: rising water, impossible choices, and protecting family
16:30–21:30 – Livestock in danger, community coordination, and the moment everything changed
21:30–25:30 – Aftermath, loss, and realizing how widespread the devastation truly was
25:30–29:00 – Clear Creek Ranch Mom becomes a hub for help, resources, and connection
29:00–35:30 – Long-term impacts on mental health, agriculture, and rural communities
35:30–40:30 – From survival to storytelling: humor, advocacy, and finding your voice
40:30–44:30 – Agriculture misconceptions, activism, and the importance of collective voices
44:30–End – Resilience, helpers, Mr. Rogers, and looking ahead to what’s next
Memorable Themes
Finding purpose through crisis
The unseen emotional labor of farming and ranching
Community resilience in rural America
Why telling your story matters, especially when it’s hard
“Look for the helpers” in times of disaster
Humor as survival
Advocacy rooted in lived experience
About Clear Creek Ranch Mom
Clear Creek Ranch Mom began as a place for Leah to share writing and photos, but became a trusted, unfiltered voice for agriculture after the 2019 floods. Today, it connects people across the country through honesty, humor, education, and advocacy for farming and ranching families.
Follow Leah:
Facebook: Clear Creek Ranch Mom
Instagram: @clearcreekranchmom
🔗 Connect With the Show
Visit: gritandgraceintheheartland.com
If this episode moved you, reminded you of your own storm, or helped you understand agriculture a little better, please consider sharing it with a friend.
Until next time,Have some grit and grace. 

Life After the Cows: Grief, Grit, and Finding Grace with Richelle

Guest: Richelle, Prairie Crocus Creative
Episode Summary
In this deeply moving and honest episode of Grit and Grace in the Heartland, Mary and Leah welcome their very first guest, Richelle, a Montana ranch woman, writer, photographer, speaker, and advocate for women in agriculture.
Rochelle shares her personal journey growing up on a multi-generation ranch near the Canadian border, building a cattle herd with her husband, and ultimately facing one of the hardest realities in agriculture: selling the cows. Through drought, loss, grief, and major life pivots, Rochelle speaks candidly about identity, heartbreak, resilience, and the quiet strength it takes to keep going.
This episode explores the realities many ag families live but rarely talk about, generational succession struggles, mental health in rural America, grief that doesn’t always have neat endings, and the courage it takes to tell your story anyway.
What We Talk About
Growing up ranching in northern Montana
Life as a woman in agriculture and raising kids on the ranch
The emotional reality of selling a cow herd
Grief, identity, and “life after the cows”
Why “they’re just cows” misses the point entirely
Writing, photography, and storytelling as healing
Building an authentic online community
Why vulnerability matters more than perfection
Mental health in agriculture and rural communities
Suicide prevention awareness and QPR training
Generational succession challenges on family operations
Finding purpose when life doesn’t go as planned
About Richelle
Richelle is the creator behind Prairie Crocus Creative, where she shares photography, essays, poetry, and reflections rooted in ranch life, motherhood, grief, and grace. Her work resonates far beyond agriculture, reaching readers across the U.S., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
She is also a certified QPR (Question, Persuade, Refer) suicide prevention trainer, passionate about helping people move beyond surface-level conversations and truly see one another.
Richelle’s Books
Anthology – A photo-driven collection of poems, essays, and love letters to ranch life and women in agriculture
You’re Gonna Make It – A smaller, devotional-style book centered on hope, grief, and reassurance during hard seasons
Both books are available on her website.
Find Richelle
Facebook: Prairie Crocus Creative
Website: www.prairiecrocuscreative.com
Find the Hosts
Mary:
gritandgraceintheheartland.com
Facebook: A Tiny Homestead & Mary Evelyn Lewis
Leah:
Facebook & Instagram: Clear Creek Ranch Mom
A Note to Listeners
This episode contains honest discussion around grief, loss, and mental health in agriculture. If you or someone you love is struggling, please know you are not alone, and that life does continue, even when it looks nothing like what you imagined.
As Richelle reminds us:
“If you have to sell the cows… there is still life after that.”
Closing
Thank you for listening to Grit and Grace in the Heartland.Until next time, may you walk forward with both grit and grace.
00:00Mary and I'm Leah and welcome to Grit and Grace in the Heartland. Good morning Leah. Good morning Mary. How are you? I'm good.  I'm excited. We have our first guest, a woman in agriculture, Richelle Barrett today  and she is at Prairie Crocus Creative  on Facebook and she's in Montana.  Good morning Richelle. How are you? Good morning. I'm good. Glad to be here.00:26I'm so excited to have our first guest. Leah, are you all ready for this? Me too. And this lady sets the bar high, Mary. So here we go. Well, Richelle, um what's your role as a woman in agriculture? So I grew up  on  the Caris Ranch, South of Haber, Montana,  which if you don't know where that is, we are just about 40 miles south of the Canadian border.00:57about 100  miles east of Great Falls, which would be our closest uh metropolis, I guess.  So I grew up doing all sorts of stuff on the ranch. I  rode and  loved doing anything with the cows.  When I was in middle school or high school, got into 4-H and showed.01:24and  really enjoyed showing steers  and my passion was showing horses.  I just really grew up, my mom was quite a horse woman  and so I really enjoyed being, once I got over being scared of them, I just really loved doing anything horseback.  And then I went to college for two years in Palo Wyoming and got a degree in horse training, came back home and got married to my high school sweetheart.01:54and went back to school at the local college here in Haver and got a degree in basically egg business. And  then after we got married, after  we'd been married for about a year, we moved back out to my mom and dad's place  and started kind of working into the operation. Over time,  we bought our own herd of cattle.  My husband started a trucking business where he was um02:23There are a lot of serendipitous, I guess, relationships that he made. He was hauling cattle and uh grain and hay. And so we really were involved in a lot every day. then once we had our kiddos, we  were both working full time in town.  And  it just got to be an awful lot. And my husband finally came back to work to my folks.02:52In 2014 or 2015, suppose,  and uh ran a trucking business.  We had our herd of and  we were in a thick bit. I've always had a job outside of the operation, but was able to work on the weekends and after work and all the things.03:20When COVID hit, actually ended up leaving my job in town and was able to find work from home, which was great because, you know, then I could go ride my horse whenever I wanted to, and I could help out during calving and averaging. So that was really, really great. Then in 2022, we had to, my husband and had to sell our cows. We had really bad drought here.03:50And we had lost one lease where we kept, where we summer pastured our cows like the year before. And then in 2022, where we were leasing, the other place we were leasing, there had been no rain, there was no grass. And so we agreed with the land owner that we wouldn't bring cows back down there and we just couldn't find anywhere else for them to go. So.04:20At that time,  we sold our herd because we didn't own anything within my parents' place.  We didn't own anything, didn't have anywhere to go with our cattle or anything. um at that time,  my husband went back to work  and off the operation. And so it's just been kind of a shift the last couple of years. um I had worked for my folks for a04:49for a summer and then just working with family can be really difficult. And we decided that it would be best if we, if I didn't just went back to working in town. And so that's kind of where we're at now. We're kind of in a holding pattern. Yeah, I still, as far as being involved in AgNow, it's shifted to, I have done a little bit of public speaking.05:19really passionate about helping women in agriculture tell their share, share their story, excuse me. Um, basically the more that I am around other families and women in aid, there's a very consistent theme of situations like mine that we really don't talk about. You know, we don't share about that hard stuff. Um, and it might not all look the same, but we all can understand how that feels.05:50And I feel like we have a,  my generation and generations coming up that have  some really interesting perspectives. And I think that it's,  it's going to be even more important for us to continue to share our stories like you guys are doing  and whatever that looks like.  it's just really important for me to encourage other people to do that. So  I  have my Facebook page.06:18and also my website, which is just kind of a reflection of the Facebook page. But I'm just trying to share. don't share a lot of um things about what's going on in agriculture because I'm not in it every day.  But I share from a different perspective of like raising kids and it's kind of in between situation. And um I think every story is important. So that's kind of where I'm at today.06:49Okay, as Leah gently schooled me back when I interviewed her for my other podcast the first time,  we are not supposed to ask how many head of cattle a rancher has.  But when you sold your cattle, was it a lot or was it a small herd? um It was a lot for us, considering that we didn't have any ground that we owned.07:17I don't want to say it because I can't remember exactly how many we had. But it was a lot. And I don't mean like four or 500, but I mean for a small starting out family for us, it was a whole lot of heartache, is what I tell people. That was the worst day of my life, to be honest.07:45So it's really interesting to be on the other side of that because I look back on things that I posted about before we got rid of our cows and how naive I was about, know, it just like, man, I could never imagine my life if I didn't have cows and now being on the other side of that and being like, holy crap, life still goes on. There is life. It's like life after love, I guess, you know, life still has to go on. It's just, it's just different. So yeah, it was.08:15It was a big loss for us. Yeah, I guessed that it probably was, but I wanted to confirm that because  a lot of people outside of ag don't realize how much heart and soul goes into whatever it is that you're doing in agriculture. Right. Yep. And it, it's hard, um, because we have several friends who  are our age and have kind of08:43You know, they're, working into their family operations. have their own herds and they just, they don't like my friends feel like they don't know what to say around me. Um, and it's fine better.  Um, but the first couple of years, you know, I was heartbroken and I know that I probably was not very much fine to be around because it just was like, I mean, it was like losing part of myself.09:10And that's hard to explain to people that aren't involved in it. I think because there is this idea, they're just livestock or, you know, they're, just, they're just cows. Like you can't really be that attached to them, but every one of them becomes a part of you and that part of your operation becomes part of you. And it's, it's like anything that you love. If you have to let it go, it's hard, you know? So trying to.09:40I've written a lot. I've had a lot of grief in the last couple of years that we've gone through. so m sometimes I feel like my Facebook page has become more about grief and like grieving and trying to get through that. But I think that that's just part of that process of like, there is life after we lose the things that we think make our, make who we are.  And so that's10:07That has been a big shift for me in what I share and what my quote unquote advocating for agriculture is because not everybody gets to remain on the family operation and for whatever reason. And so I think it's important that we have, that we understand that we're not the only ones going through that, also that other people realize that that is a, that's a truly life altering event.10:36So that's kind of where, I guess, the story that I'm sharing now. Fabulous. Leah, you got any questions for Rochelle? Hi. She and I could talk all day, and I have such a high amount of respect for this lady. Her Facebook page says, moment capture word Smith, chaos coordinator, speaker, and advocate.11:02One of the things I admire most about Rochelle is her ability to convey feelings with art, which are the gift she has with her camera,  through her lens, and also as a wordsmith. um I am blessed because I know Rochelle's personal stories,  the things that she's not able to write about for  any number of reasons.  But she's able to thread elements of those things  through11:32the work she does with her camera and with her words that  resonate far and wide with an audience that in some cases doesn't look anything like her. so  I think it would be fun for her to share a little bit about her audience  as it's grown over the years and maybe a little bit, a snippet maybe from  the audience that she has grown and gathered and the similarities and differences. uh12:02that are fun to share with our ag audience, as well as those listening in who maybe don't have an agriculture background to understand just how connected this community really is. So that's what I would like to hear about. Yeah. So, I apologize, my voice is trying to leave me here today. But when I first started blogging, I guess we'd call it back in the day.12:32Um,  I kind of started after my second daughter was born and my oldest daughter was a monster. She still is. God bless her.  Um, but she was just one of those kids who was into everything and it was just so funny, uh, without even trying, you know, so I started writing these funny little stories about her on my personal Facebook page, cause I just would get such a kick out of it or.13:01the things she'd say, like she'd be looking out the living room window and be yelling at the bulls  and um just these funny little things. And so I had a friend at the time that I worked with  who is an incredible writer and she had her own website and page on Facebook. And she's like, Rochelle, you got to start sharing this stuff. She's like, you're just really good at this. I people can relate to it.  So one winter evening in13:302014, I remember laying on the floor after my girls went to bed and trying to figure out how to start a website.  And so I got that going and started a Facebook page  and which had a different name at the time. And it was like my mom and a couple of gals I worked with  and uh a couple of like obscure Facebook friends.  And I would share  just like it was14:00a lot more pictures with sayings at the time because I was like, don't know who reads this. I'm not going to put a lot of time into it. Well, then I would start to share some poetry or different things. And then of course, then we had more cows and we were busy  with that. The girls were getting a little bit older. We were able to come with us and do more on the branch. I had pictures from14:27moving cows and all just all the things. And so  the more of that that I shared and the more that I kind of just started like telling people what we were doing.  I had no intention  of like having this huge Facebook page. em I just shared because I thought it was fun. Like it was fun to share pretty pictures. And so over time, it has grown far more than I ever expected. m14:57There have, it has been a very interesting journey.  Um, when I was younger, I was a lot more uh willing to fight with people on the internet, I guess.  Um,  I remember there being things that I shared and people would, you know, how we all have those trolls or people that, you know, want to tell us how wrong we are. And I would literally lose sleep over it.15:27And I kind of finally had an epiphany like that was not what I wanted to do.  Um, I wanted to be a writer.  I didn't want to  fight with people online. And so I don't know, it's probably, probably around  2020 when I started working from home.  Um, I was actually involved. I was working for a,  like a agriculture marketing company online and.15:57I felt like by that time I had a much bigger audience and I really wanted to, I don't know, use it as more of a creative outlet versus being a regurgitation of what other people on the internet were already sharing. So that's kind of when it shifted from, I don't wanna say like,16:26I guess I just started sharing more of my personal experience and what I was going through. And I try not to just talk about cows or just the kids. I try to really, because everything is interconnected. And to me, everything in my life, it's all like a big pot of spaghetti, spaghetti noodles, and it's all interconnected. And so...16:55I felt like that really started when I started doing that and being more authentic to who I am and to what I really loved and could connect with people at what I call like this heart level. That was when my Facebook really took off. And then especially after we lost our cows, I lost my cousin in a tragic A to B accident.  My writing really shifted to a lot like I had said before to a lot of17:24grief, um dealing with that.  that  really, that was kind of when like, I think people saw me as a person versus just like this Facebook page. um And so it's been really interesting to watch.  I have people who I know have followed my page from  the very beginning, which is really crazy.  Like Leah, I mean, we've17:52know each other through Facebook for a very long time because of our cages. And it's been really cool because I've had a lot of opportunities come about because of sharing my story online. It's very intimidating. And sometimes I write things and I sit there and I pray about it and I think,  ah, I don't know that I really want to share this. And sometimes those are the ones that connect with people the most. uh18:19It can be really hard to be vulnerable online. And I am very lucky, incredibly lucky to have an audience that is extremely kind. I don't know how I lucked out because  it's not very, very common to have a page and not just have like vitriol and that kind of stuff,  which I know.18:47Leah sees a lot of that. And so I don't know if it's just because I...18:55don't share a lot of what's going on in the world. Like I share what's going on in my little world.  But I just have a really incredible audience.  so they're, you know, like this morning I forgot to post and I was like, oh no,  everybody's going to wonder what happened because I haven't posted in a couple of days. ah But sometimes I've also found that it's okay to take time away from it. So I have a really interesting audience. have19:25people that follow my page from Australia and New Zealand.  I have a lot of Canadians in Saskatchewan and Alberta because we have a lot of the same, you know, carving, ranching. m And I'm only  from our front door, it's about 15 miles to the Canadian border. So I like to see people that I'm basically Canadian,  but I'm not, but it's just,19:54It's funny how em people spread all over the place.  And I'm always amazed when people say where they're from and  why they're following my page.  It is really interesting. em But I am very fortunate to have a very positive group of people that follow my page. And that makes it worthwhile to me. And it makes me want to keep doing it.20:20Yeah, Rochelle, I'm going to jump in first. Again, I don't think you lucked out. I think you're a kind person and like attracts like. Mm-hmm. 100%. I appreciate that. I tried to. Yeah, and Leah and I have been talking an awful lot in our episodes about AI slop basically and how AI is hard to, it's hard to know what AI is when you look at it. Hard to, hard to. Yeah.20:49Hard to identify whether what you're looking at is AI or if it's real. And so Leah and I have talked a lot about being real. And I looked at your Facebook page and I looked at your blog and you're real. So that's, I think that's part of why, because that's what comes across.  And uh I hate being vulnerable on the podcast because every time I do it, I cry. And whoever I'm talking with cries with me and it's just a mess.21:18I'm probably going to cause it again.  I had a really good friend back a few years ago  and I met her when she was in her late 60s  and she passed away a couple years ago before I started my other podcast. So she never knew that I had become a podcaster. And  it makes me so sad that she doesn't, she wasn't around when I did it.  And she have  loved it.21:49Yeah, it's really hard to lose people who have made a huge impact in our lives. when the year my cousin passed away, we also lost another very dear friend of our family's. it just puts things in a different perspective and you realize how certain people22:19hold your families together or they are, you don't even realize how much impact they've made on your life.  And so. oh22:32I think, you know, when we lose those people, it just, ugh, it's so hard and I'm not going to cry. But yeah, gosh dang, I'm sorry. That is, it's really hard. You know, I think about my cousin, um, just kids were, mean, they're the young high school, middle school age and all the things he's missing out on, the things they're missing out on him.23:01my other friends, just the things that, oh, it just is so hard. And it just is so unfair. And I tell myself often, you know, when I get really down about having to smell the cows and stuff, I think, well, I still have my family, still have my husband, my kids are healthy, you know, there's a lot of people going through a lot, hurt or things. But then I also have to remind myself that our grief,23:32is it's important to you and the things that we go through shape who we are. it's, it's just part of us is it's eating. And so I really, I think that that has become just part of, it's become part of who I am. And some days I write about it and it's really raw and it's really hard. And then some days, you know,24:01It's just like anything, time  begins to soften the edges. But yeah, it's hard. You wish that those people could see what you're doing now, or  because you know that they would have supported that so much and they would have just thought that was the greatest thing ever. And...  she would have been my biggest cheerleader. And  I want to tell the listener that if you meet someone in your life who you think...24:28is going to die before you do, you're going to outlive them, and that makes you afraid to be their friend.  Don't be afraid, be their friend. Amen to that.  If I can interject, Mary. Yes, ma'am. One of the reasons that I appreciate Rochelle is, well, she's kinder than I am.  I've learned a lot from her.  And if I could be helpful in sharing things that Rochelle24:58just enough to share without betraying any confidences.  Statistically speaking, marriages and families don't survive some of the things that Rochelle has been through.  And I know people who have chosen to end their lives by losing their cow herd.  know marriages that did not survive that kind of stress. So  while there are many people listening who are25:26probably nodding their heads and understanding what I'm describing. There are definitely people listening to who, again, be like,  as she said, well, they're just cows. It's really, really hard to convey the depth  of those kinds of things happening  in a multi-generation family operation that change you forever.25:54I appreciate how Rachelle always says that that grief kind of softens around the edges over time. And still you are forever changed. And one of the reasons I love her so much is that she has chosen to use her own personal heartache to encourage others.  And she did not have to do that. She could hold it all close and not speak of it, or maybe hold it only close enough to her nearest friends and neighbors.  But she hasn't. She put it out there.26:23for the whole world to read about and understand in on her terms. And I am certain that she could write 10 more layers about it if she ever chose to. um But I can't understate.26:40just the amount of personal sacrifice to even tell such a story. em Because  that event for her family did forever change them  and so much more in her own personal journey as a female in agriculture.27:04The fact that she has chosen to use it for the greater good and helping encourage another who's walking in the proverbial same work boots  speaks to who she is as a person. And it is not easy because I call them the nosy neighbors who are always just waiting there on the sidelines to just see what you're talking about,  who have their own judgments, their own theories, their own ideas about why what has happened to you has happened to you and what you should have done about it. The woulda coulda shoulda.27:34who never offer to help you with any of it, but always have that judgment. It is not easy to do that. And what Rochelle and I have shared  with other writers, you we aren't writing for the people in our backyard. We're writing for all of the women out there, the ones in Australia, the ones in Canada, the ones down the road who are looking to feel a little bit less alone, who have walked the same hard walk. uh So I...28:02I just feel like it's important for our listeners to understand the depths of what Rochelle has walked through the last number of years and so much more, and that she has transitioned it into  two truly works of art as a way to express it and help others. Rochelle, are you going to maybe write a book or a memoir someday about what happened with you? Potentially. Maybe a long time down the road,28:32It's funny, the older I get and the more things that my family goes through.28:42I'm kind of a hold a grudge kind of person and I hate to admit that. I'm not as bad as I used to be, but it's a learned behavior too. Something I learned from a very young age. And the older I get and the more...29:05things that happen and the more conversations I have and the more I share on Facebook, the more I realize that there's always three sides to every story. you know, God's always somewhere in the middle of all of it, trying to teach you a lesson. so someday, maybe,  I  hate to,  it's hard because I,29:33I just actually, Leah just shared something  yesterday on Facebook about it was a gentleman had written about like family succession and how the older generation  sees  letting go.  They see it as losing everything and the younger generation feels controlled  and instead of.30:00feeling,  just to  make it concise, I guess. That article was so on point.  And so it's really hard. Like my story is my story. That's my perspective. It's what I've lived through, what I feel. m My parents' story is completely different because they're the way they see things, the way that30:28Um, even between my parents, it's completely different. So I think, and I think that's just why I share what I do because I understand. I understand that not every family is going through the same thing, but in some way we all kind of have the same, every generation kind of  can relate to, you know, certain things. em and I respect.30:57that my parents and my grandparents, like what they've gone through, I can't even begin to wrap my head around it because I didn't have to live through so many of those things. But it's really hard when they're not willing to step back and even consider, you know, like, we could do this and stuff. We're not trying to force you off the place or we're not trying to. m31:27make everything run it into the dirt. It's just, it's so hard because I think sometimes the generation gap can be so difficult to overcome.  And some families are really, really good at it. Some families have really great communication. In  some, like my parents' age,  generations are super progressive. They're super willing to change and try anything.31:57them or not. em So maybe in time, eventually,  I may write more about my situation. em But it's really hard, I feel like to not like I don't step on my parents toes. And it's not all their fault. They've done the best in a lot of ways they have done the best they can do with what they know, and what they're comfortable with. And I, I don't hold that against them anymore. It's just where do we move on from here?32:27And so like succession planning  and mental health especially is something that I'm  very passionate about. And  I'm trying to use my page and my words and even my pictures to try to just help people. uh Because I think that we are in a time where people are more connected than ever, yet we've never been  more isolated.32:56Like we self-isolate ourselves m because it's scary to have vulnerable conversations. It's scary to...33:08share when things aren't all roses. And  I don't know about you guys, but I don't think any day in farming and ranching is all roses. It doesn't matter how great the day is, there's always something that goes wrong. And  I just think that that's an important thing that as we're advocating for agriculture, eh that we find some way to do that in a positive manner  and to respect the generations that came before her.33:38but also encourage the generations that are coming up  and hopefully that we can continue to provide the opportunity for our kids. You know, I look at my kids and I think, I don't know. I don't know that they're going to want to come back to this because they have not seen a positive situation out of a lot of what has happened.  Um,  and34:07I've seen it with a lot of other families just in my area. You know, I think  I don't know, is it going to end with us? Is it going to end with my generation? Um,  which I hope not. I hope that in some way my generation can do a better job of, of being willing to communicate and being willing to try new things so that we can continue to have these places in our family for  many years to come. Because without that, it's just.34:37hard to, I don't want to think about it. I tell myself a lot that like, just can't imagine if, if those of us in farming and ranching family operations can't get our, get over ourselves or get, get our stuff together. Like there isn't going to be  family operations in the next couple of generations. Cause it's just, it's a hard thing.  Um, sometimes I envy people who  didn't grow up in it.35:08you know, who are starting out on their own because they don't have to overcome  their family, the previous generations. And sometimes I have found that to be the biggest challenge. um when you have, whenever things are on your shoulders, then you are the one that makes all those decisions. You do what's best for you. And that's exactly what our parents and grandparents did. And so, um,35:38Yeah, succession is really hard and it's something that I don't know. I would go through it differently. maybe someday I'll write a book that might help. But right now I'm just like, don't have a very positive way to spend that to help people. yeah, that's why I asked in the future. and Rochelle, I know you and Leah know each other better than you and I know each other.36:05But I just have to tell you, I'm so proud of you for getting through everything you've been through. Thank you. It's been a lot of tears shed. um Life  has to go on. You know, we just  pivot and  I fully believe that God puts things in ours, along our trail, in our cow trail. em And we just have to be willing to see it.36:34Sometimes it's not easy to see it or it's not easy to think what's qualified to do it.  mean, honestly, if you had told me 10 years ago that I was going to be speaking in front of people about our experience in agriculture, I would have laughed. I would have said, I think not.  And I've had the opportunity to do it a couple of times now. And from those experiences, it has brought me a lot of peace.37:02it has actually helped me.37:07work through some of my grief  and just knowing  that that other people are going through something similar  or you know that people can relate and you might not get to know the whole story but to be able to talk to other people even older generations I've had some older women come up to me and say you know I really appreciate you sharing  we're kind of going through something similar and you know37:38Sometimes just giving people a big hug and realizing that you're not alone in this has that can really  it's changed my life.  And so I'm very grateful that God has put that in.37:53along my cow trail and, um you know, just being aware of other opportunities as they come. Sometimes, sometimes the plans we have ourselves, most of the time, you guys know the plans we think we're making, God just sits up there and laughs and it's like, okay, watch this. You just have to be willing to pivot  and it's not pretty. Sometimes it hurts really bad and that's okay.38:21But you just have to know that there if you're going through hard times if if you have to Sell the cows there's still life after that, know, it might feel like life is ending it might feel like your heart  is  walking up on that cattle trailer with them  and If it takes a lot of time to get through that and it is really hard em But there's still life38:51after that. God has plans for each and every one of us. We don't always understand what that looks like. We don't understand why I can't just leave well enough alone. But honestly, I think of all the things I would have missed out on if we still had our cows and that's, you know, it's just like, you just have to take it one day at a time and know that everything is going to work out if you're39:19you're just willing to look for what he's trying to tell you. So that's what's gotten me through a lot of it. um And I just, that's what I try to share on my page is that it's going to be okay. It's going to be hard, but it's going to be okay.  She has a book that's even called that.  Okay.39:45I'm so glad that you have kept going, Rochelle. I think there's a song that says if you're going through hell, keep on going. Yeah. um So,  I was going to say something and I lost my turn of thought.  Rochelle, it has been a joy having you be our first special guest, because we haven't had a guest on the show yet.  Where can people find you? So you can find me on Facebook. It's  my pages.40:15Prey Crocus Creative. My website is preycrocuscreative.com. And I don't post on Instagram. I'm kind of taking a hiatus from that this year. But those are kind of the two best places right now to follow my page. yeah, you never know. You'll tell us maybe you're sleeping somewhere.40:40Right. And will you tell us about your books and also will you tell us just a little bit about the certification that you worked on getting? Oh, yeah. So  I have two books and they're like photo books, I guess, like a coffee table style type. I don't know what you need to call them that.  The first one is called Anthology and it's a collection  of um photos and poems, essays.41:10I love letters to ranch life and women in agriculture. That one I wrote before we sold the cows. So it's a couple of years old. You can find that one on my website. And then last year I put together a new one that Leah alluded to. It's called, You're Gonna Make It. It's a little bit smaller book, but it has pictures and...41:37and it's kind of along the same lines, but a collection of a lot of the work I've shared on Facebook, a little bit of some devotions. when I write, these things together, I think about essentially writing, telling, leaving something behind for my girls. And that's kind of how I approach them. And that's kind of how I approach a lot of my writing as well is like,42:06Um, for my kids  and my kids that I have adopted through 4-H, like you're gonna, it's all gonna work out. It's all gonna be okay. Um, so both of those are available on my website.  Um, and then  Leah, I'm assuming you're talking about the,  um, suicide prevention QPR. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Yeah. So last year, um,42:36I went through QPR training, which is, stands for Question, Persuade and Refer.  And it's, it's not really what it is as it's intended to help people be aware of if you have somebody who's going through a difficult time, being able to  have a conversation with someone and ask hard questions like, Are you really okay?43:06digging down, because we all ask people, Oh, how are you today? And we all say, Oh, I'm good. And that's where it ends. so QPR is intended to help get deeper, I guess, past the superficial conversations, and to help people who may be going through a really hard time find some help, you know, like if you, whether you are43:34they're actually contemplating suicide, you help them get on the phone, like suicide hotline, or you you, you're just, help them. The idea is to be someone who can help someone going through a hard time get the help they need. I've had a sibling who committed suicide and have seen too many people that I44:04No,  either go through a similar situation or after working at the high school here in our hometown, like there's just  mental health issues are rampant in rural America, rural Montana especially. And especially with the things that are going on in agriculture, I think it's just really important for us to dig deeper than the superficial, how are ya? um44:33and being aware that it's okay to ask people if they're, you know, thinking about committing suicide. It's not, you're not accusing people of anything. Sometimes it's just people don't feel seen and we live in such an isolated world that we all carry an awful lot of, you know, we all carry grief. We all carry this luggage, big old45:02case the luggage with us of all these heartaches and things with us. And sometimes it just takes one person to ask a question for the dam to break  and to have a conversation. so that is, that is really important to me. And in which that like I am able to do talk to groups and do the training. And it's, I haven't had the opportunity just because the last year and half has been crazy. um45:32But I have that certification and I  highly recommend it. It's something that high schoolers can sit through. It's something adults, parents doesn't matter if you have kids or not. Whatever job you're working in, I think it's really important, especially if you're interacting with people in agriculture, just to be aware, just to be able to learn how to ask questions. em Because sometimes you just know when people are having a hard time and em46:01We don't always know how to navigate the human.  Humans don't always navigate grief and these things very well. yeah, em that's something that I did  and  have that knowledge and am very passionate about. Thank you for sharing that. Yep. I didn't even know there was such a thing, Rochelle, so now I'm going to go look it up later. Yep.46:28Yep. It's a, and there is also another one and I'm trying to of a blank, but I have not sat through that one, but there's a different program. It's like Comet Training, which is geared more towards producers in agriculture. And I have been his sat through that one. And I think that that's a really great thing too. It's intended to help producer interactions with each other.46:57and like your egg banker with your producers and that sort of thing.  there's a lot of, there are a lot of resources out there,  but it's just something that we have to be able to talk about because there's,  much,  that looks different, but we still need, no matter what happens, you're more important than  your identity in  operation.  so.47:25It's really easy to think that  when the cows go down the road or you have to sell the place, the home place that your life has ended, it hasn't. There's still life out there to live. And so it's important to be able to have those conversations with the ones we love and support them through these hard times.47:48So you see why I love her so much.  I do. How long have you guys known each other? Real quick. um I think we started interacting online  through another site we both were writing with and for maybe 2018. We have not actually met in person.  We did pass through the Denver airport within one day of each other last year, but we have not met in person yet.48:14Well, Leah, you and I have not met  either yet in person. And  honestly, I think one of the best things about the internet is that you make these soul connections because you connect through words or voice instead of by being in the same room.  Okay, Leah, where can people find you? You can find me on Facebook at Clear Creek Ranch Mom and the same over at Instagram where we just do rainbows and sunshine and mostly my cat George.48:43I love your cat, George. He's cute.  All right. And for the rest of this, you can find us  at gritandgraceintheheartland.com.  And you can find me at Atiny Homestead on Facebook. You can find me at Mary Evelyn Lewis on Facebook. You can find me everywhere on Facebook.  Rachelle, thank you again so much for being here. I loved having you. Thank you. I really appreciate it.49:11All right, in the meantime, have some grit and grace.
 

Head, Heart, Hands, and Health: Why 4-H Still Matters

In this episode of Grit and Grace in the Heartland, Mary and Leah talk about 4-H, what it is, where it came from, and why it still matters more than ever. From livestock projects and county fairs to creativity, leadership, and service, Leah shares how 4-H shapes kids for life, not just for competition. This conversation is about growing people, building community, and giving kids the tools they need to succeed long after the ribbons are put away.
What We Cover
What the 4-H pledge really means
How 4-H goes far beyond agriculture
Life lessons learned through projects, service, and responsibility
Why 4-H prepares kids for the real world
The importance of supporting youth programs like 4-H and FFA
Connect With Us
Find Grit and Grace in the Heartland – Women in Agriculture on FacebookVisit gritandgraceintheheartland.com
 
 
00:00Mary and I'm Leah and welcome to Grit and Grace in the Heartland. Good morning, Leah. How are you? Good morning, Mary. Doing well. Happy day. Yeah. Can you believe it's January 15th? Halfway through the month that has felt already kind of like a whole month or more.  Yeah. I mean, Valentine's Day is less than a month away. Spring is less than two months away.
00:28I know, and my Thanksgiving cactus is blooming again. Both of them  are, which makes me happy. Yeah, are they the hot pink ones? I have hot pink and a red one, both, and they're side by side, and they're  just putting on all kinds of blooms again. So I'm happy about that, adding some color to my window. Yeah, not to go too far down the house plant rabbit hole here, but  there's a Thanksgiving
00:55cactus, there's a Christmas cactus, and I think there's an Easter cactus, and they're all the same plant. Yes, they just has to do with the shape of their leaves, I believe. Yeah, yeah. They're really pretty. My mom  really wanted a Christmas cactus for a long time, and a few years back, my sister got her a baby one,  just a little tiny one. And my mom has been like nurturing that thing forever. And she was so excited because this past Christmas, it had blooms all over it.
01:24Yeah, and they will live, they will outlive you if you take care of them correctly. They can live multi-generations. Yeah, they're kind of like spider plants.  And pothos, oh my god, pothos. My husband loves pothos because all you have to do is water them. They don't need any bright direct sunlight. They just need water really and they will live forever.
01:48And for the longest time in the old house, he would take cuttings off the plant. And I'm like, I don't want any more pothos. It is taking over our house. Yeah,  I know someone that does that with her her  spider plants and then she'll get her babies going and then just line the porch and put it on social media. I got more babies. Come get them from me because I can't keep them all. Yeah, I've had terrible luck with spider plants and I've had terrible luck with English ivies because English ivies need  diffuse light.
02:18from a south-facing window.  And I didn't have that in the old house, number one.  And number two, I got one when we moved here thinking that we had more than enough light, because this place has more windows than any place ever needed. And I still couldn't keep it alive. So I'm not great at house plants. I'm great at herbs. Herbs are fine.  all righty. So we're going to talk about 4-H today, because Leah,  you were involved in 4-H as a kid, is that right?
02:46I have been involved in 4-H, I say, even before I was born and I am involved still today. I've  never stopped and it is  one of my favorite things to talk about.  Good, because I have all kinds of questions. I was not involved in 4-H. 4-H was what my parents taught me at home with gardening and  pets and I had a rabbit for a while. And that was it because 4-H wasn't offered where I lived. I don't know why, but it wasn't.
03:16So to start with, do you know how long 4-H has been around? Like when did they It has been around a long time. As far as the exact starting year, I would have to look it up and we can drop some great resources after we post this  podcast to help direct the show notes, yes.  Yes ma'am, because I am so passionate about it.  And while 4-H is headquartered in our nation's capital,
03:454-H and how it is run really is up to the states  and within the states it filters out to the county level and then the local level.  And while there is a lot of unity  in certain  aspects of 4-H,  how the individual uh clubs em and counties and states do a lot of their 4-H programming is very unique depending on where you live.
04:13And I love that aspect about it as well. So 4-H is for everyone. That is what I tell everyone. um It is said that 4-H does touch the lives of  one in three youth in the United States.  Between the ages of now, we say age six, because that's when we have our Clover Kids programming that starts. All the way to age 18 and then beyond,  is collegiate
04:43programming, and of course we rely on  volunteers as leaders and judges and so on. So it is deep and wide in its reach.  And research tells us that 4-H involvement  makes long-term permanent impacts, positive impacts on those who have been involved in it.  And I know that because I did my graduate research thesis  on
05:11the premise that 4-H  did have long-term impacts.  And um I did find that  to be true.  And it was truly fascinating  what my research um revealed. 4-H  is about so much more than agriculture. And while this podcast and while what I do in my advocacy has a lot to do with agriculture,  the message that
05:39is really important to me is to make sure that people know that 4-H is for everyone. And those are actually some of my favorite stories is how 4-H was able to be introduced to urban communities  or those who maybe lived in a rural community but are not involved in agriculture.  They found a project that was something that appealed to them  that wasn't  necessarily agriculture related but was just something they loved.  And
06:10still made the same amazing impact on that child's life. Okay, awesome. I'm so glad you know about this because I have been dying for, since I started the other podcast over two years ago to talk to somebody who was steeped in 4-H and it sounds like you were. So, this is going to sound like an interview. I'm trying really hard not to do that to you. What do the H's stand for? What are the 4-H's? The 4-H pledge.
06:39is surrounded by  four components that are the four H's. I pledge my head to clear thinking. I pledge my heart to greater loyalty. I pledge my hands  to larger service. And I pledge my health to better living for my club, my community, my country, and my world. So it's head, heart, hands, and health. Okay, cool. oh
07:08It reminds me very much of Girl Scouts. I was in Girl Scouts.  Could I recite the Girl Scout pledge to you right now? No, I could not. I would need like a uh primer because I don't remember. But same idea. It was very much about taking care of yourself so you can take care of your community. And Girl Scouts and 4-H have a lot in common  in that Girl Scouts is for young girls and 4-H is for everyone, but it didn't
07:37I don't know that it always was. Was it always for boys and girls? It was as far  back as before my parents' generation,  though my mother was in Girl Scouts like you were, um Brownie Girls, actually, I think is what hers was called, um not in 4-H. And my father and his siblings were. I'd have to do some research about the equal.
08:04integration of boys and girls in 4-H. But here where I grew up where 4-H was and still is a very, very strong program, it's always been  both, I would say. Okay.  Well, one of the things that I found out when I was looking at information about 4-H in preparation for this conversation  was that there are more girls in 4-H than there are boys right now.  I believe that. um
08:36It's just so fun. And there's so much opportunity, so many projects to be involved in. I was doing a quick search and  again, there is  some difference in what projects are offered in a different county in a different state. But the last  I looked at,  I think locally in our particular county, there's over 160 project areas to choose from. And yes, there is a heavy focus on those related to agriculture.
09:03But there's just so much that isn't. It has nothing to do with agriculture. There is truly something for everyone. And that is what makes it so great. Looks like the original clover pin, where sorry, where the H, that's okay. Each of the H's officially was adopted in 1910. 1912, groups began to assimilate, begin being called 4H clubs.
09:31and Congress passed the Smith-Lever Act in 1914 to officially designate them  as work of various boys and girls clubs involved in agriculture, effectively nationalizing it as a national 4-H organization.  So there in 1914 said it was for boys and girls.  Now whether or not that was universally accepted or encouraged, you know, in every local or state,
10:01a place, I'm not sure, but at least on a national level, as early as that time, which was before women were given the right to vote,  it was said to be for both. So that's gratifying that those  early  amazing adults who were thinking beyond themselves and thinking about what was good for boys and girls were thinking about including, being very inclusive and who was invited to participate.  So was for all kids. um
10:31Good, good. And I would bet that it was more boys than girls enrolled then because girls weren't encouraged to get out and do things like they are now. But I'm glad that the opportunity was there for them even then. And the more things, yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Because the main concern, the seed that was planted was a grave concern in 1902.
10:59When Community in Ohio said, I'm concerned about the urban-rural divide, can we do something to help provide for more education to help everyone stay connected to our food systems and understanding how food is produced in our country? So here we are. Over 100 years later, we're having the same conversations. You would think we would smarten the heck up, but no. No.
11:27Okay, I was going to say in my head when I think of 4-H, I think of the kids who raised the calf to a steer,  take it to the county fair, and then they have to sell it.  anybody who's ever watched a video about this knows how hard that is on the kids because they raised that calf with all their hearts and all their love and all their care.  And they do everything they can to make sure that that critter is the best critter it can be.
11:56and then they have to let it go.  every time, I can't watch them anymore. just cry when they have to let it go.
12:04It is a complex  set of feelings that is difficult to describe unless you've lived it.  And  one of the things I do as a parent who has walked in those boots as a child and now the parent  and as a club leader, volunteer, and who cares about all of the youth who are in that position, be it selling a steer or a goat or a pig.
12:34or a sheep  is  having
12:40an opportunity to share with the public who doesn't understand that the complexity, the emotion  is  not  about  a relationship the way you might assume you feel about your family pet.  Because most of us choose  as parents to have very open frank.
13:06early conversations with our children about what it means for an animal to be a terminal animal that's meant for food and byproduct use,  that  the emotion is there because this animal is the  living  evidence  of  work done that so many of their peers can understand  and  the blood, sweat, and tears
13:35poured into something, the commitment and their exhaustion, frankly, by the end of a county fair, the measure of that devotion. It is a lot. And it's also gratitude because historically, in our county, for instance, because of the support of our community businesses,
14:03and the fact that we are able to have a true livestock sale.  That sale is funding the dreams and the hopes  of our children's  futures,  including  paying for college,  starting a business. um It  just means so much to them. And  a young lady that is very dear to our family is in her first semester of PA school.
14:32And if it weren't for 4-H,  she wouldn't be able to be doing this without such a hefty  student loan burden right now. Her participation in that  and selling those animals  for 10 years and weeping through it sometimes, not always, because sometimes  you feel peace letting them go when they've been in real pain, has
14:59It financed her dreams and her dreams are coming true.  And the 4-H part helps give her the work ethic to press through PA school, which is no joke.
15:11Yeah, I feel like 4-H is the thing  that teaches kids responsibility and hope and how to set goals and how to achieve them  and so many more things, but those are the things that really stick out to me.  Loyalty, teamwork, devotion,  service beyond self. Our kids in our club pick up trash. They ring the bells  for the Salvation Army.
15:41They participate in efforts to gather food for our food pantry and take it there. They participate in fundraising efforts to give back into our backpack programs in our county and our different schools in our whole county to help feed kids on weekends whose families may run short on weekends. so, it's 4-H.
16:09is always about learning and service.  And every child in 4-H is expected to give back. Our county fairs wouldn't run without volunteers. So every child who is winning purple ribbons is also expected to be cleaning and painting and raking and mowing and organizing and helping judges and putting ribbons on. And that's what our kids do. um And it's so gratifying.
16:38We also require at our county fair when they have an entry of a project to be at a loaf of bread or an entomology, which are dead bugs.  The boys really get into the dead bugs, by the way. uh Entered into entomology,  which is a science project, or leather work, or a cat,  or  sewing,  or uh painting, or  just anything. They have to participate in an interview.
17:06And not every county does that. And it is a heavy, heavy lift because we have to find judges who have the time to help interview all these kids. These kids are phenomenal. By the time they are teenagers, they know how to have conversations with adults. They get jobs. They are successful,  not just in 4-H, but the other things they do because they started learning these skills at age six years old.
17:32about how to start and finish something and do your best and take criticism, take critiques, learn from them  because you don't win purple ribbons every year  and become resilient, coping.  The other cool thing is many of our 4-H  hired staff, which come through in Nebraska, they are hired through the university.  They go into the school systems. So kids who aren't even in regular 4-H will
18:02meet 4-H program people. And that's how in our school, our kids learn how to bake bread. She goes each year  to all of the third graders  in our whole county  and spends a day with them and they learn how to bake bread and then they take their loaf of bread home. And for many of them, it might be the very first time they've been in a kitchen actually doing something. And if you can just imagine the pride.
18:31taking home a true loaf of bread at the end of the day. Well, considering that I still haven't managed to make a good loaf of yeast bread in my entire life, yeah, I can absolutely imagine the pride that happens with that.  And it's not even just the baking skills. She wraps the science into it.  She at times has done homemade ice cream where you do it by playing kick the can, which is so much fun.  She did this with us in 4-H camp.
19:00years and years ago are making butter same way with the art of movement and then of course with the ice cream with the salt and the ice lowering the freezing point. But the kids, they're learning without realizing they're learning. That's another thing I love about 4-H. You're learning in all of the different ways because we all know kids don't learn the same way and learning without even realizing that you're learning.
19:26and you're learning something. And it might be about how to lose and lose with grace. And it might be how to win and win with poise  and integrity.  It might be how to stand up and put your shoulders back in the face of defeat. I could just go on and on. I could tell you my own personal stories of heartache ah when I didn't want to.
19:55I didn't want to go on because I was embarrassed or, you know, something happened. had an animal die on me at the fair. It died. All those months of work to have a beef animal develop a rapid onset of an ulcer, which is a terrible, terrible thing that happens to beef cattle on occasion and you really can't do anything about it. That's why I'm so passionate about it because here I am 40 years later.
20:24and I can remember like yesterday. So  it really is a tremendous program and I'm not saying that just because I'm in it and I'm a rancher and I care about the  agriculture components. It makes an impact no matter whose life it touches.  Yes. So I have  a question.  With Girl Scouts, I would go to Sherri Beatty's house to go see my troop of girls.
20:53we would do a thing, it would last about an hour, and then we would go home.  How is 4-H  structured for the kids? it, do they do it in school? Is it  an extracurricular thing? Is it an hour long? How does it work? Yep, sure. Again, it depends on your state and your county and your 4-H club. Here and where we live, you are required to join a club.
21:20So you do not participate independently. And I understand that because it is for good reasons that you are in a club to learn some of those things we just talked about.  So our particular club, which is volunteer-led,  so we get back into this whole conversation about being short on volunteers in this country,  why we're so grateful for them. We meet once a month. So we gather once a month. um We skip a couple of months, especially around fair time because it's such a busy time of year.
21:50We have a business meeting. We have elected officers. The kids at age eight start learning the basics of parliamentary procedure. That's fabulous. Isn't that something? How to make a motion, how to have discussion, how to take a vote, how to take minutes, how to keep a financial report because we do fundraise then and we are responsible for keeping track of our funds and then deciding as a club  how to spend them.
22:20And of course, there's a lot of parental oversight because  if you asked an eight-year-old,  they want to donate their money to everything, you know.  And they don't necessarily have  completely clear understanding of the cost of doing business and some of those things. So the older kids are expected to shepherd the younger kids  and the adults are there for general oversight. So we meet once a month.  When there is time, we integrate some kind of a service project  or some kind of a topic and then some kind of fund.
22:50because these kids are, we call 4-H friends, friends forever. And  I am friends forever with my 4-H friends of my youth.  One of them happens to be the nurse practitioner who helps take care of me as an adult now. em So we  make a lot of jokes about,  she learned how to take care of beef cattle, so of course she's good at taking care of  human women too. um So  we have our meetings once a month and then we ramp up some of that.
23:19again, during times of year where we're providing extra service during the holidays.  And then certainly dress rehearsals  as we lead into county fair because we like to give the kids time with adults to practice before  they interview with judges, for instance, or before they bring their animals to the fair because especially for the young ones,  if they're bringing their chickens or their bunny rabbits or their horse or their bigger animals, it's very
23:49nerve-racking because not only are you a nervous kid who's nervous for yourself and  being in front of a crowd and answering questions, here you have an animal that can be unpredictable. m And so it always helps to get the jitters out if you can have a practice or two. Oh, of course.  Absolutely. Practice makes better. I don't think it makes perfect. I think it makes better. m And if you want true entertainment, you sit where you can hear what an eight
24:18or a nine or a 10 year old will tell a judge because they don't know how to tell a lie. uh
24:26One of the best, so I'm a volunteer comment writer for a judge. Typically your judges are people who don't know the kids  so that there's no bias. Totally makes sense.  But your comment writers and your volunteers are all your locals. So two years ago, it's the end of the day, the judging window closes at 4 p.m. and you're supposed to come according to like, you know, the last letter of your alphabet so we can kind of spread kids out throughout the day.
24:53It's five minutes to closing time. We think we're done for the day. We had some no-show kids, you know, sometimes you just don't get the paint to dry on a piece of art and you just don't get it entered. Well,  this young man who I know comes racing in the door and he has a t-shirt on a hanger  and he's headed our way and I know he's headed to our table. We had  one of the kind of miscellaneous art categories.
25:18and he comes flying to the table and sits down in front of the judge and he doesn't shake the judge's hand.  And I know this young man and typically he would have done that. And I'm thinking  something's up.  And he hands me the hanger with this tie dyed blue t-shirt and he says, I don't think you want to touch it.  And I realized his hands are blue. oh
25:48And I said,  okay. And so the judge,  who I also know,  starts interviewing him.  And he said, it's been quite a day, of course. I didn't think I was going to make it on time and I'm already in trouble with my mom. And he she says, why is that? He goes,  because I took her pressure cooker to use it to tie-dye my shirt.  Oh no.
26:15And he had done a remarkably great job with his tie-dye work, which was still lead. And he goes, but she says, I'll learn my lesson about procrastination because you don't want to look too closely. There's a hole in the armpit of this t-shirt. Oh no. He said, if you're going to tie-dye, I'm not taking you to the store to buy something new. You got to find something. And he said, I guess I picked an old shirt that had a hole in it. Bonnie, oh my goodness.
26:44But he was magnificent. So I think she gave him a blue ribbon because he nailed his performance in the interview  and the t-shirt was just the byproduct. I've seen that kid wear the t-shirt out and about.  But that's just a small example of why 4-H is fantastic. Where else do you find a nine-year-old? A nine-year-old doing something like that. Yeah, I mean, why not?  And I
27:13I'm going to say it. I feel like 4-H fosters creativity on all levels for kids and then through the rest of their lives.  Mm-hmm. 100%. And here he is, nine years old, having a candid, honest, terrific interview with an adult woman. He knew every bit about how to properly tie-dye a shirt. He did read the directions. Mm-hmm. Just happened to wait a couple days too long.
27:42He was proud of his work, his time management. Well, you can say he got it done on time. He took full responsibility  for it and he got it done. And he's out there wearing the t-shirt and he's proud of it. um Sure, he frustrated his mom and he probably owes her a new pressure cooker. But  he's nine years old. Again, in this world of so much challenge for our American children, would you rather have had him
28:12sitting in front of the TV, I don't think so. This is the creativity. This is what we want for our kids. So, 4-H provides that. And it doesn't cost a darn thing to belong to 4-H at all. Yeah, and lest we forget, children are the future of the world. So, the more that we can give them room to learn and love and feel, the better off we're all going to be.  Yep. Now it's my turn to cough.
28:44100%. It's that time of year. Everybody is coughing. Even people on the news, the local news, they're coughing. And sneezing, yes. so we have about 160 4-H members in our county, which represents a good chunk of those eligible in our county. And our county fair is big. We have kids that go on then to compete in our state fair.
29:11in our national 4-H Congress. 4-H, though, across the board has struggled because of the sharp elbows of other distractions that have come along, namely sports.  And I love sports, Mary. I've always loved sports. I'm not particularly good at them. I'm super excited that the Olympics are in February. I've always loved the Winter Olympics. um But I have to question, especially as I
29:40I listen and I hear how expensive, for instance, club traveling sports are. And in a culture  that seems to worship sports, and that's a strong word, I know, but it sure feels that way when it dominates every news  story and every thread.  There are children who do not like sports. There are children who are not good at sports. There are children who are great at sports.  And
30:10And it's my very firm opinion that if you don't have your children in something besides sports, you are selling them short because sports will end, maybe not for some. And sports do teach a lot of things to kids, but there is  so much more.
30:34Yeah.  And sports can end your career before you even start your career in sports.  And I don't feel like that's always the case with 4-H. I mean, yes, you could probably get a broken leg from a calf, but  it's unusual.  And 4-H has so many other things that aren't necessarily  massively physical, like quilt making or  tie-dyeing t-shirts, like you just said.  So.
31:05I've been blessed  in my life, in my travels, to interact with a lot of  notable people, with a lot of influence  when it comes to making hiring decisions  and selections and appointments.  And I can tell you firsthand  if a young person or any person has 4-H,
31:35or FFA, or Eagle Scout, or things like that on their resume, they do rise to the surface. Because people know, they know what goes with that.  Fabulous. Are your daughters in 4-H or have they been? They have been. Both of them have been  since they were Clover kids.
32:02Our eldest will finish out her 4-H career this year. We do call it a career because it is truly that, when you're all in as she has been, which means not only as a participant, but as a volunteer. And the conversation she and I had recently was, what am I going to do when I don't have it? Because it consumes so much time for her when you've been a contributor and giving back. And I said, I have no doubt in my mind.
32:31that one day soon you will find yourself ready to give back  as a volunteer, a judge or something.  It becomes part of who you are. And that's why I am so passionate about it.  My husband was a 4-H-er as well.  He showed hogs.  And it's not perfect. It's an organization that has its struggles. Funding is a major struggle.  Right now, both 4-H and FFA are m
33:01You know, they're  easy ones  to be gone after. I know, I believe it's Oregon right now, the legislature has to cut money from the state budget and FFA is on the chopping block. I know there's efforts underway to try to fight that. Here, the university is responsible for much of the 4-H budget and they're consolidating positions and trying to cut spending. And there may come a time when more of that expense is passed on.
33:31locally. As I said right now, it's $6 to belong to 4-H. That's it. And that's been one of the merits for it in saying that it's for everyone. And when I tell you, know 4-H club leaders who drive around and pick up kids who don't have transportation, I mean it. One of them is my neighbor who does that. And he teaches archery and shooting sports to young people. That
33:58we have to advocate for these programs, just like other ones that have struggled because those of us who've been there know the full value. And it's easy when you're done with it and you've closed  that chapter in your life to say, that's not my fight, it's not my battle. But now more than ever, those of us who are aware have to fight and advocate  and say, because the squeaky wheels get the grease and programs like 4-H and FFA
34:27They've never been a squeaky wheel. They've just turned out their results  and kept marching along.  we have to speak up for them and tell our stories and share them, which is partly why I do what I do, because it does  matter.  Absolutely, it does. Okay. We're going to keep this one a little shorter today because I have another thing I'm scheduled to do at 1030, and I will definitely need to go grab a glass of water and  maybe visit the bathroom before 1030. Leah? oh
34:57Thank you for talking with me about  this particular topic because I feel like it's important.  And I'm sorry if it felt like I was interviewing you. was trying not to, but I'm so curious about it because I was never part of it. People can find us  at Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture on Facebook.  And you can go to the website gritandgracentheheartland.com. um
35:22Love, love, love talking with you, Leah. And you have lived like a billion lifetimes in one, I swear.  I have been blessed to have a lot of experiences  and parents who were not gentle parents who  made  me try things, especially public speaking when I did not want to. That was one of my very first 4-H experiences was being in the public speaking contest. And look at me now.
35:52And so  the message for parents and grandparents and loving neighbors and family members is kids often will say no to something, but they don't know until they try it.  And I tell you, you get them in 4-H, you get them hooked. So if we can share resources and help direct you to the resources in your state, we will do that using our social media um channels that we can to help connect you because...
36:16I believe that strongly in this program that I will do what I can to help you get connected where you need to be. Yep. I will try to put all the things in the show notes so people can just, you know, click the link to the 4-H website and then  they can find places to sign up. Fantastic.  All right. Well, we will talk to you in the next one. And in the meantime, have some grit and grace.
 

Unknotting the Mess: Labor, Immigration, and Hope in the Heartland

In this episode, Mary and Leah open with the familiar rhythms of Midwestern life, weather, winter wellness, and the importance of vitamin D, before moving into a deeply honest, timely conversation about immigration, agriculture, and the values shaping our food system.
Sparked by recent events in Minnesota and the emotional weight they carry, the discussion explores why so many Americans are feeling frustrated, sad, and divided, and how those feelings connect to broken systems that affect us all. From labor shortages in agriculture to the human cost of immigration policy, Mary and Leah step back from sound bites and headlines to look at the bigger picture.
This episode centers on one core idea: together matters. Together in community. Together in responsibility. Together in rebuilding systems that no longer work.
Rather than arguing politics, Mary and Leah focus on people, the farmers, families, immigrants, and neighbors whose lives are intertwined with the food we eat and the values we hold. They discuss why cheap food has come at a high cost, why honorable work deserves fair pay, and why fear and misinformation are harming our ability to solve real problems.
The conversation also touches on:
Labor challenges in agriculture and the role of immigrant workers
The cultural shift away from valuing hard, physical work
Why “breaking even” isn’t sustainable for farms or communities
How broken immigration systems create fear instead of solutions
The growing impact of misinformation and AI-generated content
Practical ways listeners can show up with grit, grace, and courage
Mary and Leah close with hope, grounded in community, young people, and everyday acts of kindness, reminding listeners that change doesn’t start on social media or TV screens, but in how we treat one another.
Takeaway
We may not have all the answers, but we are capable of better. And it starts with choosing empathy, accountability, and connection, right where we live.
Resources & Links
Website: gritandgraceintheheartland.com
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00:00Mary and I'm Leah and welcome to Grit and Grace in the Heartland.  Good morning, Leah. How are you? Good morning, Mary. A beautiful day in the neighborhood. Is it nice in Nebraska right now? It is again, this atypical, droughty, mild January, a 40 % chance of rain tonight. I'm hopeful for that. As odd as that sounds for rain in the middle of January, but we will take it. Yeah.00:28Absolutely. It's been so  dry and  not here in Minnesota, we still have snow on the ground and ice, but I know in Nebraska it's been really dry. Typical Midwesterners, we open up our conversations with discussions of weather and then possibly what we're eating and if we have  recently bought anything on sale.  I always try to open my podcast and my other podcast and this one with the weather because we're all affected by it.00:57100%. And I feel like it joins us all together. It is very bright and shiny here today. There's a light breeze. It was 40 degrees when I got up at 4 a.m. 40 degrees at 4 a.m. On January what 13th? I bought myself one three years ago. I bought myself one of those lights to use in the wintertime because my office is in the basement with no windows.01:23And it occurred to me that I haven't even pulled it out and used it one time this winter. That's because I've been able to be outdoors every day this winter for the most part. So that just speaks to what kind of winter it has been.  And I put myself on a high quality vitamin D supplement as recommended by my doctor.  But I'm a big advocate of those lights if you don't have them and taking time to sit in your south facing windows during the day, especially if you're a very pale midwesterner.  But yes, I have not had to use my light at all.01:52Yeah, I just started taking vitamin D because I was at, I was below the lowest recommended number in my blood work.  And my doctor said that most people who hail from a  European descent, especially Northern European descent, sometimes carry a below  average level year round, but especially in those darker, longer winter months and  checking the vitamin D level is not on your typical panel  for your annual02:22you sometimes have to ask for it. So  while we're not talking necessarily about wellness today, I know it goes back to our conversations last week.  Ask for your vitamin D to be checked  and talk with your doctor about  what level you should look for. Vitamin D levels are directly linked to so many things, one of them being your mental health and wellbeing. So definitely get that vitamin D level checked.02:48Oh, for sure. And if you can afford it, if you have good health insurance or if you just happen to have the money to pay for it,  ask for every test you can get when they take your blood because they're going to take four vials anyway. They might as well test for everything.  And a lot of those tests are becoming more affordable. I see these pop-ups on social media for  other things that can be screened for, including some food sensitivities.  And I  mean, as much as many of us don't want to know the answers, some of those things.03:17I think there's a lot of great opportunity out there for us to  do more discovery on what is working and not working for each of us. I'm really happy to see more work done on the, just because something says it's normal doesn't really mean it falls  in what is considered healthy ranges, especially with our  hormones and whatnot. And the more you know, the more you can advocate for yourself and  take care and feel as good as you can.03:46Yes, I always say the more you know, the more you know. Because it's true. And it's fun to say it because people just laugh.  And it doesn't mean that there's a pill for it. Like a vitamin D supplement is not a prescription, it's not another pill.  There are things you can achieve through changing your diet and exercise and  other self-care that doesn't require a prescription. So this is just not a big advocate  message for big pharmacy, but it is for self-care.04:15Oh yeah, absolutely. If you don't take care of yourself, you can't get anything done. So that's why I do it.  All right. So last week was a very heavy week here in Minnesota with a lady that got shot by an ICE agent.  And  I talked with Leah last week about it in private because I was very, very sad about it.  And I finally talked to my dad about it on Saturday, I think. And he said, are you able to talk without crying? And I said, yes.  And he said, honey, he said,04:45things are gonna get worse before they get better. And I said, oh, well, that's really positive. And he said, I can't lie to you. He said, things are gonna get worse before they get better.  And I said, okay.  And again, as I've said, my dad is one of the most level-headed men I know. He is one of the most patient men I know.  And he is  the best at putting himself in other people's shoes so he can understand their perspective.  So if my dad is saying it's gonna get worse before it gets better,05:13It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.  It was a rough week and it's,  it's, it's getting worse. There's been a ton of protests here. Um, people have been tear gassed. They have been pushed and knocked over. They have been arrested.  And I don't really want to get into politics on this because I don't know enough to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but05:40What I realized this morning when I woke up is the reason that all of this is making me so sad and so frustrated  is because I was brought up in a home where love thy neighbor was a big thing. And I feel like we have stopped loving our neighbors.  Well, first of all, I'm so grateful for you.  I love the state of Minnesota. I have many, many dear connections in the state of Minnesota, a beautiful state.06:09full of wonderful people  and industry and tourism and beauty.  And I'm so sorry for your state, as another friend said to me. You know, typically you love to hear the name of your state in the news, but not so much,  you know, not so much right now.  And also, I'm so thankful that you living parents that you're able to pick up the phone and call.  For me personally, when, especially when hard things come,06:38I'm so, so, so thankful for people that I can pick up the phone and call, or I can visit who are always there to listen and be discerning  and sometimes just let me talk and listen and then able to read me and know if they're just there to listen or if I'm looking for affirmation or feedback or help and guidance.  So I'm so glad you have that.07:07Me too, because I am not young, but my dad is older than me and he knows more than I do and I trust his opinions. So it's really nice to be able to know that I have someone to vent to if I need to. And he's always saying, you call whenever you want, honey. And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to call you at two o'clock in the morning. No, I'm not doing that. He has seen a lot of things and he has lived a lot of things. He has. he's, again, he's very level.07:37and really considerate and level-headed and considerate make it so much easier for me to believe in what he's telling me.  Because if he was a hothead I'd be like, well you're just being over the top again, but he's not like that at all. uh It really helps. So I don't want to talk about all the politics of this. It all sucks. That's all I have to say about it. uh08:06The situation with immigration right now is impacting agriculture and it's really impacting women  agriculture, so we thought we'd talk about it.  Yes, there are some very interesting statistics regarding labor within agriculture.  And it's easy for us who work in production agriculture to be very focused through our own lenses, which are  what are our struggles, what are our opportunities, what are our challenges.08:36and labor struggles within the farming and ranching areas of the Midwest, the Great Plains,  have been problematic for a long time. um That's because we walk this very fine line  on  what we call our family operations between what we can do ourselves,  coupled with trying to be profitable, uh taking on more risk, and then recognizing when you fall short and being able to get the labor all taken care of.09:05And as time has gone along, finding the kind of labor that we need for assistance has been more challenging, much more challenging.  Sometimes it's as simple as recognizing that people are much more um able to be on the go or on the move than they used to be. um People pick up and move and move to new jobs, new opportunities more often versus the old days where people would  put down roots and stay for a while.09:31But in doing research for our conversation today, looking at where our immigrant  labor has been such a  huge piece in the backbone of our agricultural industry, we really look to the seasonal needs  for agriculture across this country.  And that goes particularly to the needs of our fresh produce  that we rely on, that we cherish.09:58in this country and our abilities to grow our fruits and vegetables  in the United States.  And unfortunately, through a whole bunch of challenges that are far beyond our labor issues in this country,  we all know all you got to do is look at labels that we're importing more and more produce all the time.  So what's an American farmer supposed to do? We have the labor  challenges that resulted in10:27looking to immigrant labor and it has for a long time. This is not a new situation. Right. Yes. Here comes the challenges  of  the immigration rules  and lack thereof of processes and systems that have worked.  You know, though,  if you watch sensational headlines, you might be led to believe that it's a  massive issue and we're talking millions and millions and millions of10:56what you call illegal immigrants in the United States, laboring in agriculture, and it's not estimated in 2022 was only 4.8 % of the workforce total, but over about a third when it comes to agriculture or farm workers. And some will say, well, why so many? This falls on the United States government in so many ways.11:25And I will lose listeners, I will lose followers, and I will lose consumers  because we have a  major,  major values system problem in this country.  Our value system has been focused around cheap food for a very long time.  And  so what the US government did was try to pump in money to subsidize11:53the food industries to keep food cheap  and farm owners  look for cheap labor to keep the price of production cheap. And so what they do, they started paying people under the table, providing  avenues  to get temporary illegal help from other countries. When I say illegal, I just mean they're coming and helping  and not doing their paperwork.  created a disastrous system.12:24Meanwhile,  we're still losing ground. Selling farms can't be profitable, can't keep up with paying taxes. We have,  I mean, we could talk for days on end about this.  And who loses? We all lose. We all lose. And I have never met an immigrant myself who came here looking for more than true opportunity that was better than where they came from.12:55Yeah. And, and I'm going to say this too. mean,  everybody has the potential to do good or bad. And it's not just immigrants that do things that are criminally related. There are very few immigrants who are considered to be criminals. I mean, there are, there are Americans who do bad things and get arrested and have due process and either go to jail or don't.13:24It just, bothers me so much that people are like, oh, well, they're from Mexico, so they must not be good people. And I'm like, um, they are people first.  what we have is.13:40for 30 years now, gosh, time gets away. have politicians take headlines and sensationalize them, use talking points and sound bites as simply a way to swing voters to opportune, I don't know that's a word, take advantage of situations, hit people against each other. And we have solved nothing. We've absolutely solved nothing. In fact,14:10If you look at the statistics, because  in my opinion, this all falls on the hands of  every party that's ever been in office.  The systems in place have failed people right and left, regardless of who's in office. I don't care about stats. I don't care about numbers. The bottom line is the responsibilities fall on all. We have a perfect disaster. Today, the choice is to blame this administration  for the situation we're in, the way it's being managed.14:40But historically, it falls on everyone. I tend to choose to lean conservatively, but  I am not without doing my darnedest to step back and look at the big picture here. I have very good friends who came here illegally. They are proud U.S. citizens now. And when they describe to me how hard it was to become Americans, it makes me sick to my stomach.15:09It should never have taken 11 years.  What kind of,  and I've worked for the government, so I'm not surprised  by our conversations about the USDA this morning.  What kind of efficiency is that?  It's not. So are you surprised when people say, I'm gonna take the quote, the easier way, which is to come in the back door and not do things that with.15:36the correct way, it's because our entire system is broken. And my problem today is  instead of focusing on taking these resources and going and extricating and throwing people out and not considering the ramifications and the ripple effects,  which I got to see firsthand and hear firsthand from some children who have been affected by these things, not just now.16:03but over the last whole generation of things shared with me is that's not a fix. That is  a headline to put on TV and make people clap their hands or scream in horror,  but it doesn't inspire change.  It doesn't make people feel better. It doesn't do anything for tomorrow. What we need is a sit down comprehensive work plan, pulling people together and say,  we do have a problem. We have so many broken things.16:32let's begin to figure this out together and make it make sense because this doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to me.  Yeah, the problem is the together part because nobody is together in our government right now.  It  isn't that heartbreaking because16:52If someone came here, and there are plenty of arguments, well, they came here to take advantage or take from or take what we have and take and give of,  most people who have immigrated here that I know are not living better than I am. um The ones who I know are not demanding that I change to accommodate them, they would like to be included.17:20And there are, you know, you always hear about the bad apples, so to speak, and the tough situations. So can tell you some really heartwarming stories from two young women in particular  who were not born here and whose parents were not born here.  That they're both on track to become first generation college students.  Nice.  And they both want to  earn it,  Mary. Yeah.  And they're both17:50celebrating and their parents are celebrating their freedom and ability to truly become self-made young ladies.  And they  also believe that others need to come out of  the shadows, step forward and say,18:10Okay, we haven't been doing things the way the rules say, can we help work together to figure out how to rework these rules and make this possible for us because it seems too hard, too far. And now what we have is a culture of fear.  People are afraid to do the right thing because of what they're seeing on television. Yeah. Everybody loses today. I mean, I just.18:37everybody loses.  is why we're talking about this in a public way. Yes.  And I'm not going to tell you that I'm  excited to talk about this. I'm not excited to have people tell my parents that they're, you know, disappointed in me and they're unfollowing me. That's what happens when you live in a small town.  Or that I'm on the wrong side of things. I got called a radical this morning already for something else.  People with their name calling, aren't they precious?19:07Um, I'm an American  and I'm, I love my country. I'm proud of my country.  believe in rules and regulations  and systems of order.  Uh, but what we have isn't working. We have to put some really thoughtful, intelligent work, just like every other major issue that's going on right now. Things are not working well.  And.19:36They're not going to until everyone takes off their pack, as my granddad would say, and say, I am not here with an agenda. I am here because  I want things to work well for everyone who is proud to call themselves an American, who wants to work hard, pay taxes, be safe, have clean drinking water, work hard, have a retirement plan.  Just be a good citizen. It's just  so frustrating to me.20:05And this relates to agriculture because in spite of all of the technology and automation and systems, we are losing our farms  because we don't have enough laborers. don't have apparently Americans willing to do some of this work, which is separate from the wage issues themselves. The wage issues are a huge problem.20:30I don't want to be beholden to other countries for my fresh produce. Sure, the stuff that doesn't grow here, but I will not sit by and hear people say, well, we can just import all of our almonds. We can import all of our lettuce and oranges if we can't get enough workers. It's just so wrong on all levels. Absolutely. And I am  an utter coffee fiend and you can't grow  coffee.21:01in the United States. I know they grow it in Hawaii, but that's not connected to the United States.  is a state, but it's not connected to  the whole United States. And I don't want to give up coffee, so I'm very happy that we import coffee. But the day that I can't grow tomatoes in my garden and I have to import them from somewhere else to get them is going to be a very sad day.  No, I don't want that. And I certainly don't want to be, I mean, I hope to see 80.21:31But if I see 80 and I want tomatoes, I want to be able to grow them from the cute couple down the road who have taken up where we left off.  And the work is backbreaking. The work is hard. The work is self, it requires selfless giving. I am very bothered and this is a bigger conversation than where labor is coming from. I am very bothered by the number of Americans.21:59who chose to turn up their noses  at picking lettuce and harvesting tomatoes and said, why don't you get migrant workers to do it instead? Like that's a whole other conversation. I am very bothered by that because that requires  generations of families turning up their noses at what I call honorable work. So that's one whole conversation.  And secondly,  I don't care.22:27who is doing it, they deserve to be paid an appropriate wage for it. So if that means you've got to pay in the grocery store the price that is  appropriate, it means you need to rework your value system and understand that American farmers and all of the people who support them to make that crop get to your grocery store shelf, deserve to be paid what22:54is required to be profitable so they can stay in business.23:00It's just mind boggling to me that we're having this conversation here  and I do not look to Europe for guidance on much of anything because they have their own host of a lot of problems. The whole world has its own sets of problems, believe me. But this country's value system of valuing cheap food and expensive toys and entertainment is a problem for me. It is.23:29Well, yes,  of course it is  because toys are something that is gratuitous. It's something that you that you quote unquote play with. Food is necessary.  And again,  I have had so many people say, your life is so rosy and beautiful. I never considered that you needed to make a profit. I just thought you so intrinsically23:58loved what you do that you're satisfied to break even.  Breaking even doesn't mean we can expand and grow more. It doesn't mean I can give raises. It doesn't mean I can hire more qualified help. It's just  so important that we have these conversations about where our values lie in this country. I'm just really passionate about it because24:25The pushback that I get tells me it runs deeper and wider than I thought, which means it's multi-generational.  I fall  into the trap myself when I shrug  off purchasing things at the grocery store thinking of, goodness, why is this so expensive? And  the whole conversation about the corporate middle people really being the ones who profit and not the producers are the ones who are profiting. But the ripple effects are deep and wide.24:54They go into every facet of agriculture. um Immigrant labor supports a ton of the dairy industry. Again, another area that is labor intensive and has had a ton of Americans turn up their noses at doing that work.  We would be really in trouble without them. so we have to have better avenues of helping our immigrants have a good pathway into this country when they're coming here to do work that seemingly Americans won't do.25:23And some are saying, you know, deport the illegal immigrants. Americans will pick up the slack. Are they really going to? Cause  I, I mean, I'd love to believe that again, that's back to this value system, but I'm not seeing evidence of that.  don't think most Americans would have any idea how to pick up the slack  on that. Yeah.  And that's again, that's a bigger conversation and it's, it's just.25:52It's so sad to me. A lot of that is so sad to me. um Without becoming too personal, because I don't have permission to speak about a couple of these young ladies. The one of them,  her parents do not have glamorous jobs.  They're very, very blue collar,  but they live debt free because they've chosen to be very industrious and very intelligent and thoughtful with how they run their family and the children work.26:18as well and they're very involved students and good students too.  But I was asking her just last night  as she was telling me about being set to become the first generation college student and her plan for how to make that happen. um It's just it's how she was raised. So it tells you these conversations have to become generational. I'm so thankful for how I was raised.  I am not better than my neighbor.26:47I am not better than a listener out there going,  sound self-righteous that you've got it all figured out. Believe me, I don't have it all figured out. uh But these, know that change is hard. It is hard.  And throwing Band-Aids on things like this USDA report we talked about this morning and um the broken systems  in the food system itself and immigration and taxes and healthcare.27:15We cannot survive if we just keep putting band-aids on. We have to rip the whole band-aid, all of the band-aids off and we've got to start over because things get to where there's so much in disrepair. You can't fix them anymore. You have to start over. That's what our founders did. And then they rebuilt and they re-tacked and they recognized they had to and that is where we are at. Yeah. Leah.27:43Have you ever been at like a yard sale and somebody has a bag of necklaces that they've gathered over the years and it's going to cost you a dollar  to buy that bag of necklaces. But  once you get at home, have to unknot all the chains that have knotted together over the years. Yeah. And people don't buy them because they don't want to do the work. That's the picture in my head of where we're at with everything that's going on right now.28:11Yes. And then you find a young lady who  did such a thing with her grandma's jewelry. And what she did was she took the needle nose pliers and disconnected all of the pendants and the brooches  and turned them into a beautiful Christmas tree on a felt background and had it framed to hang on the wall. So the whole point of me bringing up the bag of necklaces is that  it's a mess right now, but you can find a way28:41to  un-mess it, which is not a real word, but it is now,  and make it into something beautiful that works. oh And I have so much compassion for who I call innocent bystanders  of all of these things, especially when they become the flash point, then they have cameras on their faces, they're being interviewed, they're under the microscope. And let me be very clear,  when emotions are running high,29:09On every side, people say and do things that later on  oftentimes regret, but don't have an opportunity to apologize, to clarify, or anything else.  I caution people. I never knew my great grandfather, but my dad told me his best advice was in  the old days where he was helping shape some policy that had to do with bringing electricity29:39to Nebraska, which was controversial, if you can believe that.  can.  People were afraid that electricity would make people lazy. That when you had to say hard things or you had an emotional response, write it down, put it away a couple of days, then revisit it and then say, would I really say that out loud? And now because of cameras and social media, people are not given that grace. It's instantaneous.30:09And that gives instantaneous responses and it is not a good look. Generally human beings are not equipped to handle it well at all. And so I've just really, really had to filter how much I take in because I don't feel good about what it does to me.  And I also don't want to lessen offering some grace  and using discernment and backing away because when these flashpoints happen.30:37And we've seen things flame and flame, like, you're not going to convince me that there's not money being made  off of emotional responses to situations. And that money oftentimes lands in hands that really don't have invested interest in anything except making money. em I hate that kind of stuff. I despise it. So I just caution people to try to step away and use some discernment and don't let yourself get sucked in.31:06too much because it can be really hard on you. Yeah, my parents gave me two,  I don't know, coping mechanisms when it came to opening my mouth and saying things back when I was teenager. And the first one was count to 10 before you open your mouth.  And I do that to this day. If I'm thinking something and I'm like,  I count to 10 and that gives me time to think about how I want to frame.31:34what's going to come out of my face  so that maybe it won't be hurtful or destructive.  And the second thing was they always said to me, it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thoughtful  than to open it and remove all doubt.  So I try to hang on to that one too. Yes. 100%. I pinch my thumb and my pointer finger. pinch them together on both hands. That's what I do.32:02And I had a very sharp tongue as a teenager  and I suffered from  massive foot and mouth disease.  I was constantly saying things and being like, I never should have said that out loud.  So to this day, I try to remember the two  tools they gave me to not have my foot in my mouth all the time.32:27I think I'm better than I used to be. I hope so. Cause it was very bad when I was 13 to 15.  Yes.  And as I wrote about yesterday, when I realized from a totally unrelated issue that I got caught up in some AI video, what should be terrifying to  all of us.  And I did some more reading on this last night  was the amount of AI video being created. First of all,32:55It's not being created in the United States,  but it's being pumped into the United States  and it's the wild west.  is, there are efforts underway to try to get some legislation  created that says these online platforms must label video as AI generated because there isn't currently,  but the AI tools are now becoming so good that videos are being created right and left that are33:26throwing  more fuel  on volatile situations. Case in point, um this wasn't what I got caught in. There was a devastating series of waves that hit the Homer, Alaska area in December.  And AI video created in an Asian country was used and created additional videos that portrayed even more devastating effects than what happened.33:55there were devastating effects. Like real is always bad enough, right?  But it caused additional unnecessary panic.  So the lesson for all of us is  if you're going to take in the news, this was my caution yesterday, I'm in a place now where I just don't feel like you can trust any video you're watching. And what a sad thing for me to say because I love, that was my major was video journalism broadcasting.34:23Until we have some legislation or some kind of oversight, I don't recommend watching videos on the internet.  I hate saying that. I sound like a conspiracy theorist,  but legitimately  it happened to me and I feel like I have a pretty discerning eye.  It is happening. There are other players in other countries who love nothing more than a divided, broken America. That is a fact.  And34:50If you're taking in news and you're trying to gain actual real knowledge of a situation, you have got to think of other ways to gather that. Even if it requires more energy from you, you're going to have to pick up the phone. You're going to have to go there. You're going to have to call local news sources  because what you're watching on the internet, especially a social media platform cannot be trusted at all.  And again, I sound like a lunatic saying that out loud, but it's35:17It is absolutely true.  There was more had to do with wildfire. He was fake, Mary. And the tools they're using are getting so good. You don't know that it's not real. Yep. I think that we have to take everything we see on social media for sure with a grain of salt.  it happened so fast. Like, you know, last year I'm thinking  we're three to five years away.35:45And here it's January and here we're in it already. And um I hope that our,  and why do we have to have legislation to make people do the right thing?  hate that, but especially I'm very concerned for our more vulnerable populations, elderly, young people. um Some people I think.36:10Their self-preservation may need to be as simple as I'm just going to have to unplug altogether because I can't trust any of it. Isn't that so sad? It's disheartening, I think is a good word for it. You know? And there's a phrase, trust but verify. Trust but verify would probably be a good phrase for 2026. Yeah. And here's my pledge.36:38Leah Peterson, your Clear Creek Ranch mom pledged, will not use AI to tell you anything. The only time I use it as a tool to help to be a researcher, investigate, but anything I share with you will be in my own words, with my own images, real, vulnerable, honest, raw. I won't do that to you because real, authentic,37:03transparent life  is as good as it gets and none of us should want fake. We've spent too many years believing  that fake is better and it is not  and it will not serve us well in any efforts to bring people together.  No,  no it will not. And I'm starting to feel really sad now. We were doing so good and now I'm like, meh. So,  so37:33The things that we can do right now regarding the whole  immigration fiasco  is we can be nice  to our neighbors.  We can check on our neighbors. We can help our neighbors. There are people in Minneapolis and St. Paul right now  who are running errands for people who are afraid to leave their homes because they're afraid they're going to be stolen by ICE.38:01Real, authentic, vulnerable, honest, getting out, talking with your neighbors, being a good citizen, being in community with one another, praying for one another, being fearless and brave, showing up, doing the things a good citizen does,  asking more of your elected representatives,  asking questions, making phone calls, writing letters, asking for response.38:27Most of our state uh unicameral or  bodies of government, they're in session.  Their job is to be accountable to you.  This is not a government that belongs to someone else. This is our government.  We pay for these people to do their jobs, be it your local, your state, or your federal.  They are accountable to you. It is their obligation to be responsive to you.  I encourage you to be thoughtful in your questions, to be courteous and respectful.38:55It is their obligation to be responsive to you. They are accountable to you.  And more people need to practice that communication.  One of my jobs as a undergrad, as an intern for a state legislature was to open the mail.  Oh, Mary, it was the highlight of my day  because my state senator got these lovely handwritten letters all the time.  And at that time, you could watch the unicameral on public television in the afternoon.39:24And it could be everything from a sweet old lady complimenting his suit and  tie to very, very critical uh commentary about how he was voting on a bill, for instance,  and his wife was fighting cancer at the time as well.  So there was questions about that. But there was only one time did I see something that was threatening, you might call, but not enough to merit  escalation. uh39:51people acted with decorum and thoughtfulness, even when they wanted to ask hard questions and say disagree,  disagreeing things.  We have got to get back to that place. This is not working for us.  And I am asking  all Americans to set a better example because your little people are watching  a social media person in Minnesota, Mary, who I really enjoy.40:18was sharing their local school district was forced to remove the main access doors to their public bathrooms in their school because the children will not respect the property and then closing other bathrooms and denying access. That is no way to live. We have got to do better as a nation. I am just, I am begging. We are capable of better. This is40:46This is unacceptable and our little people are watching  and they will follow our example. is far past time to change how we treat one another.  could not agree more.  That's all I got. I could not agree more with you. Well, to give you some heartening snapshots of my Saturday was spent in my first speech meet  hundreds of students.41:15I think we had 12 schools there in a community that has been hit hard by the announcement of losing a massively huge employer  happening at the end of this month. The children there, including the speech team from that community that's affected by this loss of so many jobs, had the best time together, taking pictures, playing cards, doing improv, karaoke, and trivia. uh41:46questions to a show they're all apparently teenagers are watching a show called Stranger Things.  Yes. Having fun together. That had nothing to do with their performances, which were amazing and fabulous. And I laughed and I cried. uh A young man from our school did a serious interpretation of Where the Red Fern Grows.  That movie gets me every time.  Yeah.42:14a hilarious entertainment speech about how you achieve a fashion glow up at your local Dollar General store. Oh, cute. It was the best day and these children are every creed and color  and they just had the best day together. And I walked out of that school at the end of the day, feeling like there was hope for our future. That's what kids do.42:41That's what good kids do. They make you feel like, oh, not everything sucks. I'd like to turn over the government to them because I found myself thinking  there's no problem that they could not solve by working together. Uh huh.  Well, honestly, there's no problem that all of us can't solve by working  together. Together is the key word today on this episode. Together we can make things better.  I agree.43:08We just have to get over ourselves, don't we?  We just have to  stop and think and consider  what we want the world to be instead of being so angry about what the world is.  Part of me thinks that if  all of the TV and all of the radio and all of the internet access were to shut down for about two weeks on the other side of that,43:35actually feel like a good bit of this could have been taken care of  because it would require us to get out there and be with one another and talk through these things  and would be the end of propagandizing a bunch of issues and you'd find out that people generally are just people.  absolutely.  All right, well, that's about as  positive as I think we can make the end of this.44:01Leah, it's always a joy to get to dig into this stuff with you. I appreciate it. And to those who are listening to the podcast, we appreciate you taking the time to listen to us. We do. Hang in there, Minnesota, for all of you who are out there. We care about you. We care about all of you across this great country. We are all in this together and appreciate you being here.44:26And the website is now live. It is gritandgraceandtheheartland.com. And there is a blog post for every episode. And you can actually listen to the episode on the player below the blog post. So that makes things a little easier for people. I love that function. It makes me so happy. I'm really a geek at heart, Leah, just so you know. Yes, you are. Totally, completely. All right. In the meantime, have some grit and grace.

Grit, Grace, and the Lost Art of Reading & Speaking

In this wide-ranging and deeply reflective episode, Mary and Leah kick off 2026 by talking weather, resilience, and the skills that truly prepare us for life, especially in agriculture. From drought conditions in Nebraska and icy chores in Minnesota to coaching high school speech, the conversation unfolds into a powerful exploration of public speaking, reading, family connection, and the unintended consequences of a screen-saturated world.
The hosts share personal stories, some funny, some emotional, about learning to speak up, advocating for oneself, the lifelong impact of reading, and why libraries, librarians, and speech programs matter now more than ever. This episode is a heartfelt call to return to the basics: conversation, books, shared work, and real human connection.
Topics Covered
Warm winters, drought, and finding gratitude in hard conditions
Ice cleats, chores, and farm safety in winter
Coaching high school speech and why speech kids are “athletes”
The confidence-building power of speech classes and 4-H
Learning to advocate for yourself, especially as a young woman
Why reading aloud to children changes lives (and brains)
Attention spans, screens, and what research is showing
Libraries as one of America’s greatest public resources
Why “watching how” is not the same as “doing”
Grit, resilience, and what really prepares young people for adulthood
A New Year’s call to unplug, read, cook, and connect
Memorable Moments
A childhood story about standing up to a librarian - with grace
Why speech classes should be required everywhere
How Stephen King, Dr. Seuss, and National Geographic shaped curious minds
The difference between information and true skill
Why “real always wins” over polished, filtered perfection
Listener Takeaways
You don’t need perfection, just participation
Reading builds memory, empathy, and lifelong resilience
Speaking skills are survival skills
Libraries are free, powerful, and underused
Technology is a tool, not a replacement for connection
Grit begins with a strong foundation at home
Call to Action
Get (or use) your library card
Read with your children - even 3–5 minutes matters
Volunteer to read in your community
Learn to cook from scratch
Check on your neighbors
Put the phone down and pick a book - or a board game - up
Resources & Links
 Website: https://www.gritandgraceintheheartland.com Contact the show via the website contact page Support your local public library